Unveiling the Secrets of Affiliate Marketing with Expert Dustin

Brett Deister: 00:00:12

Mm.

2

: 00:00:13

That's good.

3

: 00:00:17

And welcome to new episode of

Digital Car Coffee Marketing Brew,

4

: 00:00:22

and I'm your host, Brett Deister.

5

: 00:00:24

As always, if you do like this podcast,

just subscribe to all your favorite

6

: 00:00:27

podcasting apps and YouTube as well.

7

: 00:00:29

It always helps.

8

: 00:00:31

But this week we're gonna be

talking about affiliate marketing.

9

: 00:00:33

The favorite thing people don't really

wanna talk about, because it's sometimes.

10

: 00:00:37

Hard to do because you're relying on

normal people to help spread the word

11

: 00:00:42

most of the time, but not always.

12

: 00:00:43

But most of the time you're getting just

your regular customers to spread the word.

13

: 00:00:47

But I have Dustin here and

he is an expert in this.

14

: 00:00:50

He's been doing it for many years.

15

: 00:00:52

He's a nerd as he says himself about

this, and he just loves about this.

16

: 00:00:56

So I'm happy to have him on the show.

17

: 00:00:58

So welcome to the show, Dustin.

18

: 00:00:59

Duston Howes: Hey, appreciate

you having me, Brett.

19

: 00:01:02

Brett Deister: Yes.

20

: 00:01:02

And the first question I ask all my

guests is, are you a coffee or tea

21

: 00:01:05

Duston Howes: drinker?

22

: 00:01:06

Coffee, a hundred percent.

23

: 00:01:07

And cowboy coffee if, if it's available.

24

: 00:01:10

I, I actually enjoy adding

a little grit to my morning.

25

: 00:01:14

Like I'm straight black, I put nothing

in it, and I like the bitterness.

26

: 00:01:19

No.

27

: 00:01:19

So you just

28

: 00:01:20

Brett Deister: like to boil the

water with the coffee grounds

29

: 00:01:22

and be like, you know what?

30

: 00:01:23

We're just gonna have both of 'em

together to get as much caffeine

31

: 00:01:25

outta this thing as I can.

32

: 00:01:27

I chew

33

: 00:01:27

Duston Howes: it up as I drink it?

34

: 00:01:28

Yeah, it's great.

35

: 00:01:31

Brett Deister: No worries.

36

: 00:01:32

I gave a brief introduction to your

expertise, but can you give the listeners

37

: 00:01:35

a little bit more about what you do?

38

: 00:01:37

Duston Howes: Yeah, you got it, man.

39

: 00:01:38

13 years of affiliate marketing

and digital marketing experience.

40

: 00:01:43

I've, I've ran merchant programs and my

own agency over the last five, and I help

41

: 00:01:50

small companies, SMBs, especially in the

SaaS department, to grow and create an

42

: 00:01:56

affiliate program that actually works.

43

: 00:01:58

And that's, that's what

I'm passionate about.

44

: 00:02:01

I, I actually teach a course now that

teaches everything that I know and help

45

: 00:02:05

giving back to the community of affiliate

marketing as, as we know it today.

46

: 00:02:10

Brett Deister: All right.

47

: 00:02:11

And what has changed in affiliate

marketing since the explosion of

48

: 00:02:16

AI and the pandemic in general?

49

: 00:02:18

Because the pandemic has, has,

we've all said, changed everything.

50

: 00:02:23

Duston Howes: Sure thing.

51

: 00:02:24

The pandemic.

52

: 00:02:25

First of all, affiliate marketing was one

of those fields that actually blew up.

53

: 00:02:29

So in instead of being a detriment to most

of society, affiliate marketing actually

54

: 00:02:35

profited enormously over shooting their.

55

: 00:02:39

Expect stated growth in in affiliate just

because Covid brought everything online.

56

: 00:02:45

So much more and revenue was

generated online, significantly

57

: 00:02:49

increased for affiliate marketing.

58

: 00:02:51

So, and then I forgot the other

question, Brett, what was the other part

59

: 00:02:54

Brett Deister: of that?

60

: 00:02:54

AI as well.

61

: 00:02:55

So we had like the pandemic and then like

two years later it was a AI is everywhere.

62

: 00:03:00

Duston Howes: AI is everywhere, and

affiliate marketing is getting easier

63

: 00:03:04

because content can pre-produced

via AI significantly faster.

64

: 00:03:11

And there are quite a few programs out

there, chat, GPT, of course, and then

65

: 00:03:16

you've got things like Jasper AI and

some others that are just absolutely

66

: 00:03:22

killing it out there and helping affiliate

marketers produce content at a much faster

67

: 00:03:27

Brett Deister: click.

68

: 00:03:28

Got you.

69

: 00:03:28

And so do you have any like latest

stats, like just an overview stats

70

: 00:03:32

or just like affiliate market?

71

: 00:03:33

You said it blew up.

72

: 00:03:34

Is it still blowing up now as

we've seen it, or has it kind

73

: 00:03:38

of like plateaued a little bit?

74

: 00:03:39

Are we seeing that type of like slowdown?

75

: 00:03:42

I.

76

: 00:03:44

Duston Howes: There is, there is no

end in sight to its uptick in growth.

77

: 00:03:48

Companies every day are figuring out

the power of having a army of sales reps

78

: 00:03:56

that are paid on a commission basis.

79

: 00:03:58

'cause that's exactly what

affiliate marketing does.

80

: 00:04:01

And no, the, it continues to scale.

81

: 00:04:04

I wanna say 2023 is destined.

82

: 00:04:08

Some in saying number like

$12 billion coming through the

83

: 00:04:11

affiliate channel altogether.

84

: 00:04:13

And I like to say a, a good affiliate

program will cover an additional 20% of

85

: 00:04:20

your revenue that you have existing by

just adding in those kinds of partnerships

86

: 00:04:25

that are gonna be a good fit for your

87

: 00:04:27

Brett Deister: product.

88

: 00:04:28

Yes.

89

: 00:04:28

And that actually leads

into my next question.

90

: 00:04:31

How do PR pros and marketers create

a great affiliate programing?

91

: 00:04:35

'cause everybody can create one.

92

: 00:04:37

But not all of them are

93

: 00:04:38

Duston Howes: good.

94

: 00:04:39

Oh, absolutely.

95

: 00:04:40

And they're not all built the same.

96

: 00:04:43

There's 50 different softwares to

choose from the management aspect,

97

: 00:04:48

which is extraordinarily important.

98

: 00:04:50

There's this very odd thought process.

99

: 00:04:54

The industry that.

100

: 00:04:56

You can just go out and create

an affiliate program and all

101

: 00:04:59

these affiliates are gonna come

on in and join your program.

102

: 00:05:02

And that just couldn't be

further from the truth.

103

: 00:05:05

Like companies very quickly realize

that it doesn't matter how good

104

: 00:05:09

your offer is or how, how you think

partners are going to swarm on in.

105

: 00:05:16

You have to beat the streets

and get the word out about your

106

: 00:05:20

program and expand your brand.

107

: 00:05:23

And it's a lot of hard

work affiliate managers.

108

: 00:05:26

Affiliate management is a full-time job

if you're doing it right and you really

109

: 00:05:30

wanna expand with it because you can never

have enough recruitment to your program.

110

: 00:05:35

Brett Deister: So that, does that mean

for creating a great affiliate program

111

: 00:05:40

is to actually have like good incentives?

112

: 00:05:43

Is it good to have like a

great onboarding process like.

113

: 00:05:46

What other things should marketers know

if they're just trying to start at it out?

114

: 00:05:50

Duston Howes: Yeah, absolutely.

115

: 00:05:52

The all of the above.

116

: 00:05:54

To answer your question, yes, you

have to have an appealing offer.

117

: 00:05:57

You have to check your competitors.

118

: 00:05:59

You have to make sure

that your competitors, I.

119

: 00:06:02

Are not offering something well above

what you're offering to your partners.

120

: 00:06:06

And if they are beating you

out, you just can't handle those

121

: 00:06:09

margins, then you have to figure

out other ways to incentivize them.

122

: 00:06:13

Maybe that's free accounts, maybe

that's free products, maybe that's

123

: 00:06:18

an SEO link backlink to them.

124

: 00:06:20

Just whatever you have to utilize to

get them into your program rather than

125

: 00:06:25

sending traffic to your competitors.

126

: 00:06:28

It's what you're gonna have

to learn how to figure out.

127

: 00:06:30

So best, best case scenario is getting

help before you creating a program and

128

: 00:06:37

just try to make it happen on your own.

129

: 00:06:42

It's almost always a recipe for

disaster if you don't get some kind of

130

: 00:06:46

consultant in there to, to help you build

this thing out right the first time.

131

: 00:06:50

Brett Deister: And then, like you said

before, how AI has changed at all.

132

: 00:06:53

How can you, I, I guess,

implement AI into that?

133

: 00:06:57

Affiliate marketing where it actually is

134

: 00:06:59

Duston Howes: useful?

135

: 00:07:00

Yeah.

136

: 00:07:01

From the brand's perspective of

things using ai, it, it hasn't hit

137

: 00:07:07

the ground like it has for building

content on the publication side.

138

: 00:07:11

So the publishers are using AI

every single day to help them create

139

: 00:07:17

1500 word blog posts in a matter of

minutes rather than hours or days.

140

: 00:07:23

It has been in the past, but on

the affiliate management side,

141

: 00:07:26

most of the tools are from scraping

websites and contact information.

142

: 00:07:32

That's, that's probably best.

143

: 00:07:34

Where we're utilizing AI is building

lists a lot easier and building

144

: 00:07:39

lists to contact the right publishers

that are right for your program.

145

: 00:07:44

But nothing's, nothing's

perfect at this point.

146

: 00:07:49

You, you could, you could search by.

147

: 00:07:53

You know, keywords that might be

super relevant to your industry and

148

: 00:07:57

try to find a bunch of affiliates

that are ranking for those keywords.

149

: 00:08:01

But a lot of this is still some, some

manual processes that you're gonna

150

: 00:08:05

have to get into and, and you still

need a full-time affiliate manager to

151

: 00:08:10

handle all of that and make decisions.

152

: 00:08:12

So AI isn't perfect from this perspective

yet, but it is getting better every day.

153

: 00:08:18

Brett Deister: And then what are

some old school ways of actually

154

: 00:08:21

doing affiliate marketing?

155

: 00:08:22

So we talked about the new ways,

but I'm pretty sure there's a lot

156

: 00:08:24

of old school ways that actually

are really just as effective or

157

: 00:08:27

even more effective right now than

158

: 00:08:29

Duston Howes: ai.

159

: 00:08:30

No doubt.

160

: 00:08:30

Some of the best old school ways is

just simply take your biggest keyword.

161

: 00:08:37

That your brand wants to rank

for and type it into Google and

162

: 00:08:41

let's look at the search results.

163

: 00:08:43

Take the top 30 pages that are

ranking there today, and let's

164

: 00:08:49

figure out which each one of

those is actually an affiliate.

165

: 00:08:53

Or if they're a competitor, we're

not gonna have to worry about it.

166

: 00:08:57

But if they are affiliate, they

have affiliate links, they have

167

: 00:08:59

outbound links that might be organic.

168

: 00:09:02

These are all potential partners,

and you want that list of

169

: 00:09:06

30 and you're gonna have to.

170

: 00:09:08

Figure out who the right

contact is at each one of those.

171

: 00:09:12

So one of my favorite tactics is I build a

giant list first of, of all these keywords

172

: 00:09:19

and people that are ranking there.

173

: 00:09:21

And then I go to each

individual one and I use a.

174

: 00:09:25

Tool called hunter.io.

175

: 00:09:26

It's Chrome extension, and it will give

me a list of people that work at that

176

: 00:09:31

company and their email addresses and this

thing's free and it's super easy to use.

177

: 00:09:37

I copy that.

178

: 00:09:38

I, I go to LinkedIn and I figure out who

the right person is to contact at that

179

: 00:09:44

company, and then I go into emailing and

set them up with a drip campaign that.

180

: 00:09:51

It's gonna get their attention somehow.

181

: 00:09:53

So, but that's the old school way

and that's still the way I go about

182

: 00:09:57

doing a lot of my processes throughout

the day for the clients I work with.

183

: 00:10:01

And that I don't see that changing

in the, in the near future.

184

: 00:10:05

And, and automation is helping that

process get faster and cleaner.

185

: 00:10:09

But there's always gonna be something

to be said about, you know, manually

186

: 00:10:13

having that connection to the

person you're reaching out to.

187

: 00:10:17

And then when messaging

188

: 00:10:18

Brett Deister: those people, I've.

189

: 00:10:20

I know the easier way is to do like an

automated message, but a lot of people

190

: 00:10:24

can figure out that it's automated.

191

: 00:10:26

So how do you like try to message

as many people as you can without

192

: 00:10:30

feeling like you're a robot?

193

: 00:10:33

Duston Howes: Pitch question.

194

: 00:10:34

I don't have a great answer for it today.

195

: 00:10:38

It seems like the more I try to

shoot out that wide net approach,

196

: 00:10:41

the worse my results get.

197

: 00:10:44

If you have a wide net approach and are.

198

: 00:10:47

Batching and, and blasting

through your email service, expect

199

: 00:10:52

a 10% response rate or less.

200

: 00:10:55

That's, that's what you can expect.

201

: 00:10:57

Now, if you cater each one of those

messages, especially the first

202

: 00:11:01

message that you're reaching out with,

with something that is pertaining

203

: 00:11:06

to their LinkedIn profile or.

204

: 00:11:09

Their website that they are utilizing

or working at, whatever it may be.

205

: 00:11:14

If, if you do something just in one or

two sentences that shows them that you

206

: 00:11:19

took the time to care about them, your

response rate will dramatically go up into

207

: 00:11:25

that 30 and 40% if you're doing it right.

208

: 00:11:28

So that's something that you should be

always keeping in mind if, if you're

209

: 00:11:32

failing at recruiting affiliates

get more personalized and you're

210

: 00:11:37

gonna have a better success rate.

211

: 00:11:38

Brett Deister: So I mean, could it

be just like batching it down to like

212

: 00:11:41

maybe like 10 a day and then doing

some research and then that could

213

: 00:11:46

actually help because I feel like.

214

: 00:11:49

We always try to do a lot as PR

pros and marketers we're like, let's

215

: 00:11:52

gonna do a hundred a day, we're gonna

just like look like we're awesome.

216

: 00:11:56

And then it's like what you said,

10% or lower actual response rate.

217

: 00:11:59

So would it be just like niching it

down to be like, let's say we do 10

218

: 00:12:02

a day, let's say we do five a day and

then like really like customize that

219

: 00:12:06

Duston Howes: message.

220

: 00:12:07

Yeah, and I mean it's a little bit

different in the PR space because you're

221

: 00:12:11

giving a pitch and you've got, you

know, that two, three sentence pitch.

222

: 00:12:16

That you're always bringing

to their attention.

223

: 00:12:18

And it, and it's kind of similar in the

affiliate space as well, except your

224

: 00:12:22

pitch has to cater to giving them money

as commissions if for the sales that

225

: 00:12:27

they're bringing in rather than like a,

a flat fee that you're willing to pay.

226

: 00:12:30

So the message is definitely gonna

be a little bit I think you can get

227

: 00:12:34

away with it a little bit easier

in PR than you can with affiliate.

228

: 00:12:38

And the reason is it is more of a.

229

: 00:12:42

Like PR folks are more accustomed to

getting those kinds of requests where

230

: 00:12:49

affiliates, they get hundreds of them

each day from each from individual

231

: 00:12:54

brands, depends on how big they

are to go and promote new products.

232

: 00:12:58

So it can be a little testy, and I think

the response rate suppers because of that.

233

: 00:13:03

Brett Deister: And then like content-wise

to actually like advertise it.

234

: 00:13:06

Should they be using like podcasts?

235

: 00:13:07

Should they be using like

email newsletters to actually

236

: 00:13:11

like generate that stuff?

237

: 00:13:12

Besides just like using what you said,

should they be using the other stuff

238

: 00:13:16

to actually bring awareness to the

affiliate program at the same time?

239

: 00:13:21

Duston Howes: They can.

240

: 00:13:22

I haven't seen a huge uptick in

getting additional exposure on

241

: 00:13:28

joining an affiliate program.

242

: 00:13:30

The, the best affiliates are going to.

243

: 00:13:33

Figure out that there's a, a

vertical that they need to add to

244

: 00:13:37

their website or go and promote.

245

: 00:13:40

Maybe they're digital marketers or

media buyers that wanna get into a

246

: 00:13:44

specific niche, and then they're gonna

research those brands and whatever

247

: 00:13:48

comes up first as like the best

affiliate program for those verticals

248

: 00:13:52

is the list that you wanna be on.

249

: 00:13:54

So getting on some of those lists

could be helpful, but it, it hasn't

250

: 00:13:59

been a gigantic uptick in my opinion.

251

: 00:14:02

Now you might find some success in

like taking your vertical, let's say.

252

: 00:14:09

Let's say you sell mushrooms,

you know, whatever terrible

253

: 00:14:14

example, we'll stick with it.

254

: 00:14:15

Mushrooms, you just say mushroom affiliate

program and you bid on that campaign.

255

: 00:14:19

You know, maybe it's like a quarter 50

cents or something on Google, but people

256

: 00:14:25

that are trying to get into that space

might accidentally look that up and

257

: 00:14:29

click and go to your affiliate program.

258

: 00:14:31

That might be one successful

story, but really nothing beats.

259

: 00:14:36

Manual labor of going out and finding

the people that are actually ranking

260

: 00:14:41

on Google first and getting their

attention somehow, because the ones

261

: 00:14:46

that are just gonna come in off a whim,

few and far between, are they gonna

262

: 00:14:49

be really worth a lot as an affiliate?

263

: 00:14:53

And

264

: 00:14:53

Brett Deister: then what are some ways

of not doing to create a filler program?

265

: 00:14:57

Like I've, we've said like all

the great ways, but what are some

266

: 00:15:00

things just to avoid entirely

just so you don't waste your time.

267

: 00:15:04

I'd

268

: 00:15:04

Duston Howes: say the biggest pitfall

folks go through is not coming up

269

: 00:15:09

with a solid game plan to begin with.

270

: 00:15:11

So if they just create an affiliate

program and, and figure, like people

271

: 00:15:16

are just gonna sign up and give it a

ar arbitrary, like 10% I commission

272

: 00:15:20

rate without a plan of like looking

at their competitors first and seeing

273

: 00:15:26

what their competitors are often.

274

: 00:15:28

That program is much more likely to fail.

275

: 00:15:31

But if you go in, get a consultant,

like get, get fresh eyes on your brand

276

: 00:15:37

and make sure that they know what best

practices are for this industry and have

277

: 00:15:43

them come up with a plan to, you know get

the right affiliate manager in, in your,

278

: 00:15:49

in your system to be that representative.

279

: 00:15:51

Or just specifically which

platforms are gonna be the best.

280

: 00:15:55

For your product that's important.

281

: 00:15:57

Like there's 50 platforms

to choose from out there.

282

: 00:16:01

And if, and if you choose the wrong

one that isn't to your specifications

283

: 00:16:06

of what you need for last click

or la first click attribution,

284

: 00:16:10

you're gonna go down a a bad road.

285

: 00:16:13

So pre-planning is the most important

step of it all, and I can't emphasize

286

: 00:16:18

enough to get somebody who's a consultant

that's done it time after time again.

287

: 00:16:23

To help you in this journey Because if,

if you try to do this on your own, you're

288

: 00:16:27

gonna have it in your own brand lens

and it, it's gonna be an uphill battle.

289

: 00:16:33

So

290

: 00:16:34

Brett Deister: would you also say like,

going through the affiliate programs

291

: 00:16:37

that, that you may actually be doing

and seeing like what's difficult

292

: 00:16:40

to go through, how many clicks do

you go through and seeing like.

293

: 00:16:44

From your own personal experience, like

how people may drop off, because I feel

294

: 00:16:47

like a lot of times we just like set it up

and we don't actually test it ourselves,

295

: 00:16:51

and we're like, this is awesome, and then

you're like, why is nobody signing up?

296

: 00:16:55

Duston Howes: Yeah.

297

: 00:16:56

Yeah.

298

: 00:16:56

A test and retest is always important

in the affiliate channel to make

299

: 00:17:00

sure all the tracking is right.

300

: 00:17:02

Every platform out there is going to help

hold your hand during the situation, so

301

: 00:17:08

that shouldn't be that big of a problem.

302

: 00:17:11

You can get affiliate

program launched in a day.

303

: 00:17:14

I've done it before, but some, some

are a little bit more dynamic in

304

: 00:17:19

the tracking values and a little

more aggressive with commission rate

305

: 00:17:23

and adjustments to commission rate.

306

: 00:17:25

Like they might pay a

CPA and they might pay a.

307

: 00:17:29

A revenue share and it can get really

complicated and some programs have

308

: 00:17:34

taken two months for me to launch.

309

: 00:17:36

So it's a wide range.

310

: 00:17:39

It just depends on what you

need out of those partnerships.

311

: 00:17:42

I.

312

: 00:17:43

But again, that game plan, coming up with

your ideal magic wand scenario first, and

313

: 00:17:49

then getting somebody that can execute

and make that plan come, that vision

314

: 00:17:55

come to life is super necessary for the

success of an affiliate program early on.

315

: 00:18:00

Hmm.

316

: 00:18:00

And then for

317

: 00:18:01

Brett Deister: just maintaining it.

318

: 00:18:03

And what, what are some of the best

tips to maintain affiliate programs?

319

: 00:18:06

I feel like you could start it.

320

: 00:18:08

And then it's great and everything

and woo, we launched it.

321

: 00:18:10

But the maintaining part is probably

the hardest part because you want

322

: 00:18:13

this for like 10 years or longer?

323

: 00:18:16

I'm

324

: 00:18:16

Duston Howes: pretty sure.

325

: 00:18:17

Yes, for for sure.

326

: 00:18:20

Maintenance is a matter of taking your

top affiliates that are sales active and

327

: 00:18:26

making sure that they are taken care of.

328

: 00:18:28

Do not let these guys slip through

your fingers or go to a competitor.

329

: 00:18:33

Do whatever you have to, to take

your top 10 affiliates out there

330

: 00:18:37

and continue to work on them.

331

: 00:18:39

Ask them what they need from you.

332

: 00:18:41

Ask them what you guys can be doing

better if set up landing pages for them.

333

: 00:18:46

Give them more assets for marketing.

334

: 00:18:48

Give them email swipes so

that they can tap into their.

335

: 00:18:52

Audience of subscribers do whatever

you think the sales act of a affiliate

336

: 00:18:57

partners, especially early on, and

that's going to give you a better

337

: 00:19:01

vision of what new affiliates

are going to be looking for.

338

: 00:19:05

And that way you can automate those

things that they are looking for when

339

: 00:19:08

they come into the program and you get new

partners that could be difference makers.

340

: 00:19:13

So it's a continuation of.

341

: 00:19:17

You know, getting on monthly calls with

your top affiliates and just listening

342

: 00:19:22

to what their needs are can be super

beneficial to your program in the long

343

: 00:19:26

Brett Deister: run.

344

: 00:19:27

So yeah, almost like highlighting your

top sellers and making sure that they're

345

: 00:19:31

taken care of will actually help with

your affiliate marketing in the long run.

346

: 00:19:35

So would that be like, like

you said before, but also like.

347

: 00:19:39

Highlighting it through email newsletters

or something like that, your top sellers,

348

: 00:19:42

and like making them feel like special

because I'm pretty sure when you make

349

: 00:19:46

them feel special, they feel like they're

part of the process instead of like just

350

: 00:19:50

a number in the affiliate marketing cog.

351

: 00:19:53

Duston Howes: Absolutely.

352

: 00:19:53

The, the more personalized you can get.

353

: 00:19:56

Like for example, I take everybody

that's ever been affiliate, a

354

: 00:20:00

sales active affiliate in a program

that I've run, and I have them

355

: 00:20:05

in my personal CRM, so they, I.

356

: 00:20:07

I have notes in there about what verticals

they're interested in, and I have notes

357

: 00:20:13

about any kind of personal message

that we've had in the past, maybe when

358

: 00:20:18

he went out to dinner or had a drink.

359

: 00:20:19

I'm writing all those notes down for

the future so that I can go back to

360

: 00:20:24

that relationship and tap into it if I

have a new client that would be a fit

361

: 00:20:28

for them, or even for the client that

we're existing and working with, like.

362

: 00:20:34

I pass that off into the CRM for

the next affiliate manager that

363

: 00:20:38

takes over so that they have a good

understanding of where that relationship

364

: 00:20:42

left off when I left that company.

365

: 00:20:45

So CRMs are almost, are highly suggested,

even if you're using just an Excel

366

: 00:20:51

sheet, it, it is super important

to keep track of your partnerships

367

: 00:20:55

along with the your deals for the

people that are buying your product.

368

: 00:21:01

And if you can piggyback off of your

existing CRM that, that you're using,

369

: 00:21:06

whether it be a HubSpot or Salesforce,

if you can add the affiliate channel

370

: 00:21:10

and partnerships into that and just tag

it in a certain way, that'll, that'll

371

: 00:21:15

help ease the cost of, of not having

to bomb the affiliate program itself.

372

: 00:21:21

Brett Deister: And are there some

tools that could help manage this?

373

: 00:21:24

I know you said Hunter for like fining

people, but is there some tools just to

374

: 00:21:28

maintain the affiliate programming that

marketers and PR pros should know about?

375

: 00:21:32

Duston Howes: I, I'm

always a big of SEMrush.

376

: 00:21:37

SEMrush is almost always the

first tool that I use and for the

377

: 00:21:42

keyword research and the sites that

are ranking for those keywords.

378

: 00:21:46

That's how I build my biggest list is

using emr and then there are a few.

379

: 00:21:53

Tools out there that are super

helpful, pub recruiter.com is helpful.

380

: 00:21:59

Publisher discovery.com is super helpful.

381

: 00:22:02

I.

382

: 00:22:03

And within each affiliate network,

you're gonna have a large publisher

383

: 00:22:08

pool that exists already that are

on the network and that you can

384

: 00:22:13

reach out through their platform.

385

: 00:22:15

So when you go with an impact or

a share sale, you have a baked in

386

: 00:22:20

list of good affiliates that are in

the system that you can tap into.

387

: 00:22:25

But I would strongly advise and not

not trying to reach out to the masses.

388

: 00:22:33

Find the ones that are gonna be

relevant to your vertical and niche

389

: 00:22:37

that are in the platform itself.

390

: 00:22:39

So those are, those are some of

the tools that I use every time I

391

: 00:22:42

start, go recruiting for a program.

392

: 00:22:44

I.

393

: 00:22:45

Brett Deister: And what is your

prediction for the future of affiliate

394

: 00:22:47

marketing in the next five years?

395

: 00:22:49

Duston Howes: Solid question.

396

: 00:22:51

I believe it's going to get

even more relationship based as

397

: 00:22:55

AI starts taking over a lot of

capabilities of, of what publishers

398

: 00:23:02

and affiliate managers are doing.

399

: 00:23:05

I think the.

400

: 00:23:06

Relationship portion of affiliate

management is going to actually grow

401

: 00:23:11

because you're gonna find ways to make

more time for more interaction personally.

402

: 00:23:18

And so those websites that might

not be getting the most love right

403

: 00:23:22

now because you just don't have

time as an affiliate manager.

404

: 00:23:26

Now, that time that you've been

absorbed creating, creating reports for

405

: 00:23:31

executives or, or doing your daily report

evaluations, a lot of that time is going

406

: 00:23:38

to be caught up and you'll be able to

have more phone calls with partners.

407

: 00:23:43

So don't think that affiliate

management is going away.

408

: 00:23:47

It's gonna be a, a long time

coming 'cause people are going to

409

: 00:23:51

continue to crave that kind of.

410

: 00:23:55

Personal relationship with the brands

that they're working with, and I

411

: 00:23:59

think it's gonna be even stronger,

and the demand for affiliate managers

412

: 00:24:02

is just gonna continue to grow.

413

: 00:24:04

Brett Deister: So, I mean, it's

almost like affiliate managers should

414

: 00:24:06

understand how to use AI because AI

could be just their little assistant

415

: 00:24:10

doing most of the backend work.

416

: 00:24:12

I.

417

: 00:24:12

While they do most of the

relationship management work,

418

: 00:24:15

Duston Howes: keep that in mind.

419

: 00:24:16

Virtual assistants are also super

beneficial if, if you are getting paid

420

: 00:24:23

full-time as an affiliate manager,

you should consider looking into a VA

421

: 00:24:27

to do the work that you really don't

wanna do all that often, and AI is

422

: 00:24:34

going to help with this in the future.

423

: 00:24:37

But virtual assistants can get

that done, job done today for you.

424

: 00:24:42

If you train them well, if you

find a good one, don't let 'em go.

425

: 00:24:46

Just, you know, keep 'em on board for 10

hours a week to recruit on a bigger basis

426

: 00:24:51

or do the things that, tedious processes

that you don't wanna do, and that's

427

: 00:24:56

gonna be a great time saver for you as

428

: 00:24:59

Brett Deister: well.

429

: 00:24:59

All right.

430

: 00:25:00

Where can people find

you online to learn more

431

: 00:25:02

Duston Howes: about this?

432

: 00:25:02

My online course is performance

marketing manager com.

433

: 00:25:07

It is a.

434

: 00:25:08

It is everything I know about affiliate

marketing smooshed into eight hours of

435

: 00:25:13

video training with all the templates

that I, I utilize on a daily basis for

436

: 00:25:18

my programs and along with a community

of affiliate managers that are working

437

: 00:25:23

together to help pass each other good

leads on affiliates and, you know,

438

: 00:25:29

sharing their industry knowledge.

439

: 00:25:30

So it's a great community to be a part of.

440

: 00:25:33

And then for, for me personally,

if you want 15 minutes of my

441

: 00:25:37

time, I'd give it away for free.

442

: 00:25:38

So go to dustin house.com/pod 15

and get a free 15 minute call with

443

: 00:25:44

me and I'll answer any questions

you have about affiliate marketing.

444

: 00:25:48

All right.

445

: 00:25:49

Any final

446

: 00:25:49

Brett Deister: thoughts

447

: 00:25:50

Duston Howes: for listeners?

448

: 00:25:51

Boy, I don't know.

449

: 00:25:52

I, I've said a lot here.

450

: 00:25:53

I.

451

: 00:25:57

No, I really don't.

452

: 00:25:58

Brett, I think you've, ans asked a

lot of really good questions here

453

: 00:26:02

and I got to brain dump a bit.

454

: 00:26:04

I appreciate you having me

and this has been great,

455

: 00:26:07

Brett Deister: man.

456

: 00:26:08

All right.

457

: 00:26:08

Thank you, Dustin for joining Digital

Coffee Marketing Brew and sharing

458

: 00:26:11

your knowledge on affiliate marketing.

459

: 00:26:13

You got it.

460

: 00:26:14

Take care, Brett, and thank you for

joining Digital Coffee Marketing Brew.

461

: 00:26:18

As always, please subscribe to all

your favorite podcasting AMP for this

462

: 00:26:21

podcast and subscribe on YouTube,

bramble and everywhere else that,

463

: 00:26:27

that there is video to be had.

464

: 00:26:28

And join us next month as we

talk to another great seller

465

: 00:26:31

in the PR and marketing world.

466

: 00:26:33

Alright guys, stay safe, get to

understanding your own affiliate

467

: 00:26:35

marketing and see you next week later.