The Art of Conversation: Creating Community in Your Inbox

Paul Gowder: 00:00:00

Community is not a Facebook group where it's many

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people talking to many people.

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Community is just, if you have a group of

people who have that sense of belonging,

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and you can create that in email, but it,

but you have to, there's a right way to

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do it and you really have to work at it.

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Brett: Mm, that's good.

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And welcome to a new episode of

Digital Coffee Market Getting Brew.

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And I'm your host, Brett Deister.

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And if you could please subscribe to this

podcast, all your favorite podcasting.

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Absolutely.

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A five star review.

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It really just helped me, let

me know how I'm doing as well.

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But this week we'll be talking about

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How to build your community through email,

because community email, I mean it's

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the two oldest things in marketing ever.

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And so why not bridge 'em together

and try to make a great community?

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But with me is Paul and he

is the owner of powwows.com

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and the leading online community

celebrating Native American and Col

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arts and culture for the past 25 years.

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And he is, had a wealth of experience

through email marketing emails in general.

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So this is why he's on the show.

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But welcome to show Paul.

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Thank you so much.

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I appreciate the time and you're welcome.

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And the first question is all my guest

is, are you coffee or tea drinker?

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Paul Gowder: So I'm I'm

from the south, sweet tea.

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Yes.

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Coffee.

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Only if it's in, like I don't

do like straight coffee.

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I'll do like a frappuccino

or a nitro cold bru.

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Know something different.

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Can't just have a coffee killer.

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Brett: Technically nitro

cold brew's still black.

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It's just nitro shot through the I

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Paul Gowder: put lots of sweet

cream in it and yeah, some other,

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Brett: oh

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Paul Gowder: Yeah.

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Brett: Fair enough.

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. . Anyways, I gave a brief

summary of your expertise.

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Can your listeners a little

bit more about what you do?

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Paul Gowder: Yeah, appreciate it.

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Pows.com

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is a place for anybody to come

learn, experience and connect

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with Native American culture.

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And we serve a lot of native people

who are looking for ways to, stay

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connected with their culture, find

out about powwows happening across

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North America, but then we also help

educate people that are just interested

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in the culture through articles and

podcasts, live videos, things like that.

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So powwows are open to the public and we

encourage everybody to go and attend one.

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And that's what we want to do, is just

to help everybody experience the culture.

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Brett: Got you.

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So email marketing, I always call it

the dinosaur of marketing because it's

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one of the older things in digital

market, I should say, because we

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have traditional marketing as well.

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So how do you build a community

through emails specifically?

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'cause people don't really associate

those two together a lot of times.

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Paul Gowder: Yeah.

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And I think that's a big mistake.

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And right now I hear so many

people say, email's been around

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forever, it's, it, like you said,

this is the dinosaur, right?

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But I think now more than ever, it's so

important with the algorithm changes on

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social media, Pinterest and YouTube and

all these things are changing so fast.

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And then YouTube is just killing people

with their helpful content update and the

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AI overview and all this stuff, right?

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You cannot depend on all these

tra traditional marketing channels

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that we've used for years.

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It's time to, if you haven't been to look

back at email and e 'cause when you send

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an email, you know they're gonna get it.

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They may not open it right every time,

it's gonna at least be delivered.

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And for me it was building

community and email is something,

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I didn't always do well.

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It was something I discovered probably

about five or six years ago when

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I made a real shift in my email.

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I.

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Instead of what I see so many people

doing, and I was doing the same thing as

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just shouting at our users and sending

these nice, fancy, laid out graphical

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emails and just blasting them with it.

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I changed my approach and now I'm

sending text-based emails where

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I'm talking directly to people.

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I'm still putting links and

encouraging people to click on

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things and go read other things, the.

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First part of my emails are me

just talking to people, asking

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questions, and it is so fantastic.

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I just, I'm just telling my wife, I got

a really cool email a few minutes ago

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because somebody replied to my message.

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We've had four or five email exchanges

today that is building community.

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It's getting those responses.

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Community is not always a

Facebook group where it's many

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people talking to many people.

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Community is just, if you have a group of

people who have that sense of belonging,

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and you can create that in email, but it,

but you have to, there's a right way to

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do it, and you really have to work at it.

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Brett: To be fair, community has

been around since the dawn of

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mankind, basically because we

always needed each other to survive.

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So funny part is community

is a bigger dinosaur than the

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email marketing is right now.

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'cause it's the oldest

thing you could ever do.

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Do you change that mindset?

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Because I, a lot of people, a lot of

marketers don't think about that as well.

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We just think about we need these

shiny graphics, we need a video,

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we need something to consume.

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So they'll consume.

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So they may open our actual email because

we think in that like type of way, we

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don't think about a two-way communication.

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So how do you retrain your

thoughts just on that?

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Paul Gowder: You asked me earlier, tell

you a little bit about my background.

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So yes, I worked with powwows

for more than 20 years now.

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I'm adding on and not shifting, but

adding on the, helping some people

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achieve their business goals with email

marketing and building community and

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so many people that I'm working with

right now and over the last few months.

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That is their struggle, right?

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And so one of the things I like to

start with, and I think is an, it

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takes a little bit of work, but is

really easy way to build community

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with email, is to stop worrying about

what you're gonna send out every week.

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Stop worrying about those broadcast

messages and let's figure out what

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your audience wants from you, right?

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So if you are a a travel blogger, right?

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Maybe some people are coming to

you because you have really great

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content about . Paris, right?

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Maybe you've got several posts on the

restaurants and the attractions visiting

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Disneyland, Paris, or whatever it is.

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You've got some really great

content and people want that.

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So let's figure out a way to develop an

email series about that group of content,

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and let's write it in a way that you're

talking to people, not just shouting at

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them, but giving them that information

in a really direct, conversational way.

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Asking questions along

the, through the emails.

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Having this, exchange with people

and thus create those kind of email

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series that will build community

faster than these broadcast messages

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that we're sending out every week.

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And, if you're somebody who's depending on

your ad revenue, you need the clicks back,

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it's, you're gonna get lots and lots of

clicks from this kind of stuff because you

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are delivering the information they want.

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So that, that's where I start people

and get them to see those email shifts.

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So many people, start with . Figure,

trying to figure out like, what

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am I gonna send every week?

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And maybe they . Tie it to their RSS feed

and it just automatically sends out the

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latest podcast or the latest article.

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That's not the way you do email, right?

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You've got to put a little time into it.

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You gotta put yourself into it.

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Just what people tell you, if you're

going to be posting on Instagram or

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TikTok, you gotta be your authentic self.

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And sometimes that means

writing your authentic self, if

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not just showing up on video.

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Brett: So it could almost be like

splitting up the email marketing kind

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of campaign in different buckets like

a . Almost like one is like a problem

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solution for your community type of thing.

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So you're talking to your community,

not at or a little bit at them,

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but you're still talking to them

because you're solving a problem.

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They may or may not have a community

spotlight, like something that

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makes them feel connected, and then

you could broadcast maybe another

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week and then you can do something

else the next week after that.

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Paul Gowder: And, look at your stats

or look at the questions you're getting

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on social media or in your comments.

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What are people asking for If you're, if

they're asking those same questions over

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and over again, then build that as an

email series and answer those questions

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to deliver that content that they want

in a conversational, direct way, and

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that's gonna build your community, right?

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You could be, you're going to be giving

them what they want instead of just

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shouting these weekly broadcasts at them.

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You're gonna deliver the information

they want when they want it.

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Brett: And you can still like

form templates around that too.

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Once you figure it out, 'cause it's,

everything's new, but once you figure

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it out, you can build a template around

like which ones you're gonna send out.

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Plus it helps them go, oh,

someone's actually listening to me.

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The person that I'm watching

is actually listening.

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Paul Gowder: Yeah, exactly.

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And it's, it's so repeatable because I'm

working with some recipe bloggers and.

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If you've got different buckets of,

whether it's your grilling recipes or

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your holiday recipes, all of those can

be little email series that you can get

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people to opt into it in different ways

and you, and they come to your website

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because they're looking for your Turkey

recipe for Thanksgiving and you're able

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to deliver them a five email series on

here are my best holiday cooking tips

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that's going to get them to really

engage with you and, It's gonna perform

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better than just getting that next weekly

email of, Hey, here's my new recipe.

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Because yeah, that's good, but you're

not really in, you're not gonna get

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them to engage and open with it and

really wanna read it because they ne

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maybe didn't want your newest recipe.

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They wanted this specific

grouping of recipes.

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Brett: Yeah, and like for coffee shops,

you could do one thing about what's the

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different types of brews, like which ones

have more caffeine than the other one.

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Like you could build that community

around just coffee or if you have

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a product, maybe someone, maybe

you keep on seeing the reoccurring

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questions or issues they may be having.

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And then your email blast is, we're

just gonna go through these and step

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by step if we have to through an email.

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But it is still some talking to them.

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Yes, exactly.

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And so how do you get started?

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Because it seems like a lot of times

when people start this, they don't

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really get a lot of community feedback

and they're like this is a failure.

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I shouldn't do this anymore.

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Nobody's listening.

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Like I.

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W what type of encouragement could

you give people that are just

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starting out or maybe want to do this?

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Because like I said, a lot of times you

start something and you get no responses.

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Paul Gowder: Oh, for sure.

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And email marketing.

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I is a lot slower to see success and to

see results than posting on social media.

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And, if we post, a TikTok, we're gonna get

views and comments right away, probably.

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Email's a little different.

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First thing you're gonna have to do

is be a little bit patient, right?

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You're gonna have to set

some realistic goals.

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And look, if you have 10 people subscribed

to your list and you're getting a 50,

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60% open rate, that's really good.

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Now let's just get more people on

the list and keep performing it.

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It's not about having

the big, huge numbers.

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It's . Whoever, whatever numbers

you have, it's making sure

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you're delivering value to them.

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And then as you grow, you're

just going to, it's just gonna

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scale up from there, right?

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So it's really concentrate on

getting value to the people you do

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have, and it'll build from there.

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Brett: And what would be some of

the key elements to put in with

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this community focused email?

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Paul Gowder: Yeah.

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So some of the things I love

to do is, I have a email series

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on what to expect to powwow.

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'cause people are a little apprehensive

that, if they're wanting to go

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this, they have a lot of questions.

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And in the first email I say

here's what a powwow is and here

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are the things you're gonna see.

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And over the next few days

I'm going to give you this.

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But before we get to any of that.

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I have a question for you, and

so I ask 'em a little question

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and I get responses, and here's

. Here's the thing, people forget.

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Another thing people forget in email

marketing, you put that question in

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there and you get a reply in your inbox.

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You gotta answer it.

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That's where you build the community.

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Don't just let those sit there

and pile up and don't answer 'em.

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You've gotta follow up with it.

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What, whether or not, as you scale, you

maybe you template that or you, maybe you

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have a response or whatever, that's fine.

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But just make sure you're replying to

those emails and responding to people.

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I had a good example today.

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I had somebody write me and they were

not happy with something on the website.

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They were frustrated.

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And after about five or six emails,

they were like, you delivered.

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Thank you.

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You actually listened

to what I had to say.

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We had this nice conversation

and now she's okay, I get it.

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Thank you.

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That's what you can do

with community, right?

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Because you're gonna respond to

people and you're gonna have these

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conversations and it will build.

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Brett: And if you are actually busy, just

actually reply, Hey, I'm a little busy.

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Lemme gimme a few hours

and I'll get back to you.

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Paul Gowder: Sure.

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People understand that, right?

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Nobody, if somebody replies to you at

two o'clock in the morning, they don't

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expect you to respond right away, but

you respond within a day or two, right?

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And I think it's gonna be, you're

gonna see huge results when you start

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actually engaging with your readers.

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Same thing, if you're posting on

Facebook and you're not responding

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or not engaging in the comments.

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Your page may feel a little

empty and not active.

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Same thing with email.

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You've got to, you got to

engage and keep talking to 'em.

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Brett: And is there a way to maybe

dealing with some of the spam?

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Because for example, social

media, there's always spam.

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If I post something on LinkedIn, I

still get the podcast promoters trying

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to say, look, I'll offer you this.

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I have to block.

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And I'm like, that's not what I want.

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Paul Gowder: Yes.

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You're gonna get some of that.

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You're gonna get

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Bot sign up for your email.

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All of that's gonna happen.

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I, there's and you're gonna get

some people that are gonna just

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send you things that are out there.

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I've got a couple people now that

respond to me almost daily, and

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it's, screens and screens of texts.

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Some of those, I don't know, , I don't

know what I'm supposed to do with it.

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It's just lots and lots of texts.

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Usually I'll just respond with,

Hey, thanks for writing me back.

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I appreciate you being on the list.

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Thank you.

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And they list, they feel heard, right?

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You don't have to go through and answer

every concern if they posted some kind

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of political treatise or whatever,

you're gonna have some of that, right?

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But it's okay.

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You keep providing the content

and the value that you project and

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you'll attract the right of people

eventually, the, those people always.

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One of the things people get

really scared of is unsubscribes.

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And people get really caught up on

how many people are unsubscribing.

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If you get a high number of unsubscribes,

maybe there's an issue or whatever

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but generally speaking, if people

are unsubscribing, it's good, right?

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Because they weren't your people.

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So just keep delivering your

message and the right people

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will get there eventually, and

you'll snowball from there.

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But yeah it's okay.

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They'll eventually go away.

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Brett: It'll help with your numbers too.

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If they unsubscribe, then your numbers

of open rates goes up because, 'cause

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if they're never actually opening your

emails, they're just help, they just don't

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help your open rates as it is anyway.

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Paul Gowder: Yeah, exactly.

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And it can cost you more, beginning

of this week, I purged my email list.

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I, I do it about once a quarter and

I unsubscribe to about 16,000 people.

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That's a big number, but yeah, it's,

it's gonna help with my open rates.

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They hadn't opened anything

in more than 30 days.

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Get 'em off the list, stop paying for 'em.

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Brett: Got you.

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And moving on to like the list breakdown,

maybe just do that too with a list

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of super users or super community

or whatever you wanna put it like.

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Put them in different lists, and then

you can highlight maybe eventually

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in one email, like the ones that are

the super users, and then build even

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: 00:14:26

more of a collective through that.

312

: 00:14:27

Because again, if this is all

community, you want to highlight

313

: 00:14:30

those that actually care the most.

314

: 00:14:32

Paul Gowder: Exactly.

315

: 00:14:32

And I've got several people that respond.

316

: 00:14:34

Every time I send an email, they respond.

317

: 00:14:36

And you get to know them, you can

actually, respond and call them by name.

318

: 00:14:40

. Like one guy, he responds all the time.

319

: 00:14:41

I know what he does for a living.

320

: 00:14:42

I know where he works and where

he, he goes and hangs out in his,

321

: 00:14:46

so when he replied with something

today, I was like, Hey man, I know

322

: 00:14:49

you're busy doing your job here.

323

: 00:14:51

Hope to see you at the

next event, whatever.

324

: 00:14:53

And because you start forming those

relationships and you're able to.

325

: 00:14:57

To actually have conversations.

326

: 00:14:58

It's amazing.

327

: 00:14:59

It, because it's not this big faceless

void that sometimes it feels like

328

: 00:15:03

when you're on social media and

you're just talking to nobody you're

329

: 00:15:06

actually talking to people on email.

330

: 00:15:07

It's really cool.

331

: 00:15:08

I love, I've loved that part of it.

332

: 00:15:10

Brett: And have you found different

types of content help with the community?

333

: 00:15:12

Not just the broadcasting,

but the community based thing?

334

: 00:15:15

Have you seen that, you said text,

does video, maybe personalize one for

335

: 00:15:19

that specific email work could work?

336

: 00:15:22

Is there a way to vary

it up a little bit too?

337

: 00:15:24

Paul Gowder: Yeah, I think it,

I think everybody should test

338

: 00:15:26

all of those kinds of contents.

339

: 00:15:27

It, for my emails, the things that

work best are pictures and links.

340

: 00:15:31

Other than me just, being direct

with text my users like video, but

341

: 00:15:35

they're just gonna go to my YouTube

channel and watch my videos there.

342

: 00:15:37

They're sending, I.

343

: 00:15:40

Videos and email doesn't

always perform well.

344

: 00:15:41

So try everything right?

345

: 00:15:43

Try sending out an email,

try or a video in the email.

346

: 00:15:46

Try sending out some photos, maybe,

try all kinds of different things and

347

: 00:15:49

see what your audience responds to.

348

: 00:15:50

Everybody's audience can be slightly

different and just find out what it is

349

: 00:15:53

and again, just keep delivering that

value to them, the content they want.

350

: 00:15:57

You keep delivering on that.

351

: 00:15:59

Listen to their feedback.

352

: 00:16:00

Keep revising.

353

: 00:16:02

I, I was working with a client the

other day and . She's oh my God,

354

: 00:16:05

I, I don't know if this is the,

this opt-in is the right thing.

355

: 00:16:08

I was like, okay let's let it run

for a week and we can adjust it.

356

: 00:16:11

Nothing in email is permanent, right?

357

: 00:16:13

You can adjust what you're saying.

358

: 00:16:14

You can adjust your

opt-ins, all this stuff.

359

: 00:16:16

You can make adjustments along the way.

360

: 00:16:17

Just listen to your users and

take their feedback and adjust.

361

: 00:16:22

Brett: And what specific metrics

should markers be looking at?

362

: 00:16:24

We know, we talked about unsubscribe

and open rates, but what specifically?

363

: 00:16:28

'cause open rates have changed largely

because of Apple, but it's changed

364

: 00:16:32

where open rates are inconsistent

about specifically what's going on.

365

: 00:16:36

So any community based emails are

gonna be different because you're not

366

: 00:16:41

really sending them to sell something.

367

: 00:16:42

You may have a link for it, but it's not

specifically about selling something.

368

: 00:16:46

Paul Gowder: For me, the things I'm

looking at is I want to continue to

369

: 00:16:49

see people subscribing every day.

370

: 00:16:52

Even if there are days where

I have more unsubscribed and I

371

: 00:16:55

have new subscribed, that's okay.

372

: 00:16:57

As long as I'm still seeing new people

coming and opting into my email series,

373

: 00:17:01

like we have several different ones.

374

: 00:17:03

So as long as I'm continuing

to see that and, again, my most

375

: 00:17:08

valuable feedback is that I continue

getting . Messages in my inbox.

376

: 00:17:13

If I go, if I stop, there's one

particular email going back to the

377

: 00:17:16

what to Expect, the Traverse powwow.

378

: 00:17:18

If I stopped getting responses to that

first email, then I would know something

379

: 00:17:22

is wrong and I need to go and look.

380

: 00:17:24

But as long as I'm getting, 10

or 15 or 20 of those a week, I.

381

: 00:17:27

It's working right?

382

: 00:17:28

That's the metric that matters

to me is that people are actually

383

: 00:17:30

reading it and responding to it.

384

: 00:17:32

And if they're doing that, then your

click through rates and your open

385

: 00:17:34

rates and all these other metrics

that we like to look at will be good.

386

: 00:17:38

But for me it's, I wanna make

sure that they're actually

387

: 00:17:40

engaging and responding to me.

388

: 00:17:41

'cause then I know they read it.

389

: 00:17:43

Brett: Yeah, so like community

based stuff, you should really

390

: 00:17:45

just focus in on the reply rate, I

guess is the best way of saying it.

391

: 00:17:50

And not the open, open rates

too, but the reply rate is more

392

: 00:17:53

important than the open rates.

393

: 00:17:55

But even though they go

hand in a lot of ways.

394

: 00:17:58

Paul Gowder: Yeah.

395

: 00:17:58

Mean, yeah.

396

: 00:17:58

Think about it, the emails you

get every day it, how many emails

397

: 00:18:01

do you get a day from Amazon?

398

: 00:18:03

And you probably open them and look at

'em, but did you really engage with it?

399

: 00:18:08

Probably not.

400

: 00:18:09

You just glanced at it.

401

: 00:18:10

So for me, when I see people are

responding to certain emails, I was

402

: 00:18:14

like, I'm, it's one, yes, they opened it.

403

: 00:18:16

Two, they were looking at it, but

three, they were actually reading

404

: 00:18:20

it enough to see that I ask a

question and hit the reply button.

405

: 00:18:23

That's when I know that I'm,

I've got something working.

406

: 00:18:26

Brett: And how does automation

play in with the community

407

: 00:18:29

management of this, because.

408

: 00:18:31

Usually it's gonna be markers

in a small or one man team.

409

: 00:18:35

So how do you like, utilize being

authentic or actually caring about

410

: 00:18:39

your community, but still automating

it so you're not overwhelmed?

411

: 00:18:42

Paul Gowder: Yeah, there's

a couple things I do.

412

: 00:18:43

Like I do send a broadcast message every

Tuesday that is here is all the new

413

: 00:18:48

content we published this week, right?

414

: 00:18:50

Whether sometimes it's five articles

or tens, sometimes maybe two.

415

: 00:18:54

The bulk of that email, which is, here's

the headline, here's the picture from

416

: 00:18:57

it, and here's an excerpt of the article.

417

: 00:19:00

Click here to read more.

418

: 00:19:01

The bulk of that email is written by a

va, and so the VA comes every Monday.

419

: 00:19:07

He writes it, it's

ready for me on Tuesday.

420

: 00:19:08

Tuesday I go in and I add,

I write the introduction.

421

: 00:19:12

I write my piece at the top

again to make it personable.

422

: 00:19:15

It's talking to them directly

and then I can send it.

423

: 00:19:18

So that saves me a lot of time.

424

: 00:19:20

Yeah, that's something I could

do, but that's an hour that I

425

: 00:19:23

can . Be doing something else.

426

: 00:19:24

So that helps a lot.

427

: 00:19:25

And then of course, like I said, I

think the most important thing with

428

: 00:19:29

especially establish establishing yourself

in email marketing is building these

429

: 00:19:33

series and building some automation

around getting people into these series.

430

: 00:19:37

And then they get a set number of emails.

431

: 00:19:41

You spend the time upfront to do that, and

then it just becomes a more passive thing.

432

: 00:19:45

And it's just, your focus then is just

getting people into those sequences and

433

: 00:19:49

then they'll just churn through 'em.

434

: 00:19:51

Brett: Is there any effective way

use turning the casual subscribers

435

: 00:19:54

into the community member?

436

: 00:19:55

Because I'm pretty sure you get a l

you're gonna always get more casual than

437

: 00:20:00

you are gonna get your actual community.

438

: 00:20:02

So is there any way of plucking some

of those into it, or is it just gonna

439

: 00:20:06

be persistence and just the slow, like

you're the tortoise, not the hare.

440

: 00:20:11

Paul Gowder: So again I think the

value is really in these email series.

441

: 00:20:15

So one of the things I do is

occasionally in a broadcast message,

442

: 00:20:19

I may say something like, Hey are

you interested in going to a powwow?

443

: 00:20:22

Have you never been before?

444

: 00:20:24

I've got a whole series about

going to your first powwow.

445

: 00:20:27

Click here and I'll send you all that.

446

: 00:20:30

And so it's again, figuring out.

447

: 00:20:32

Maybe they came into your email list

through another way, but if I can

448

: 00:20:36

get them into that series and answer

all their questions, alleviate their

449

: 00:20:39

fears or whatever, then I know that

they're going to really be more

450

: 00:20:43

engaged because I deliver the content.

451

: 00:20:45

Like we dig a little bit deeper.

452

: 00:20:47

So if somebody comes to

my page and there are.

453

: 00:20:49

They've never been to a powwow, right?

454

: 00:20:51

And they, but they're interested and they

didn't come through that what to expect.

455

: 00:20:54

They're gonna get this broadcast

message that's gonna be all this

456

: 00:20:58

jargon and stuff about powwows.

457

: 00:21:00

It's just gonna go over their head, right?

458

: 00:21:01

So if I can get them in that other

sequence first or even later,

459

: 00:21:05

then the broadcast messages become

a little bit more relatable.

460

: 00:21:09

They understand what's going on once I

give them some background information.

461

: 00:21:12

So it's still getting people,

getting them going through all the

462

: 00:21:16

The same, onboarding task,

getting everybody to have kind

463

: 00:21:20

of that same base of knowledge.

464

: 00:21:21

Then I find that they stay around.

465

: 00:21:24

Brett: And is there any like

common mistakes to avoid?

466

: 00:21:27

Because like I said, if people are new to

this, everybody's gonna make a mistake.

467

: 00:21:30

But is there some things that they

can help avoid making mistakes?

468

: 00:21:33

'cause everybody's gonna make

a mistake once in a while.

469

: 00:21:36

Paul Gowder: I just put out a YouTube

video of my three most common mistakes

470

: 00:21:39

I see people make with email marketing.

471

: 00:21:41

First thing I can't tell you I did

an I spoke at a conference last year

472

: 00:21:45

and afterwards I audited a bunch of

people that were at the conference.

473

: 00:21:48

I did an audit on their website

about how they were what their

474

: 00:21:51

strategy for email marketing was.

475

: 00:21:53

And almost every person who's Hey,

I want you to look at my website.

476

: 00:21:56

I really wanna grow my list.

477

: 00:21:58

And you look at their website and

their offer for, join my email

478

: 00:22:01

list is down in the footer and it's

just a form that says name, email.

479

: 00:22:07

It doesn't say why they should subscribe.

480

: 00:22:09

It doesn't, and it's down in the footer.

481

: 00:22:11

Nobody's gonna see that.

482

: 00:22:11

Or worse if people are

putting it in the sidebar.

483

: 00:22:14

So users looking at it on

phones, miss it completely.

484

: 00:22:19

So you've got to, you've gotta ask,

actually ask people for their email and

485

: 00:22:23

tell them why they should subscribe.

486

: 00:22:25

That's huge.

487

: 00:22:26

And that's probably the most common

mistake I see is that people on,

488

: 00:22:29

they spend so much time making

their websites, the, these great

489

: 00:22:33

dynamic and beautiful things.

490

: 00:22:35

And then the email is their afterthought

and it's just put somewhere down here.

491

: 00:22:39

I even saw one, I was work working with

somebody last week and I saw their, on

492

: 00:22:43

their website, they had, a popup, right?

493

: 00:22:44

And it said, I.

494

: 00:22:45

It was for getting people on their list.

495

: 00:22:47

It popped up and literally all

it said was name and email.

496

: 00:22:51

Submit.

497

: 00:22:52

It didn't even say subscribe to my list.

498

: 00:22:54

There was nothing.

499

: 00:22:54

It was just two form fields.

500

: 00:22:56

Name and email address with a button.

501

: 00:22:58

Yeah.

502

: 00:22:59

Why am I gonna click that?

503

: 00:23:00

I'm just going to exit out

of that and keep on moving.

504

: 00:23:02

Yeah, and so that's the other mistake

is a lot of people make is they then

505

: 00:23:07

their next step, is to try to figure

out what the lead magnet's gonna be.

506

: 00:23:10

And people will spend hours and

hundreds of dollars sometimes

507

: 00:23:13

building these fancy PDFs.

508

: 00:23:15

This a hundred page PDF with

all their best tips and tricks

509

: 00:23:18

or recipes, whatever it is.

510

: 00:23:20

And those are great, and you can get

people to subscribe to that, but I don't

511

: 00:23:22

think you need to, I think you can.

512

: 00:23:24

Like for me, hey.

513

: 00:23:27

Are you scared of going

to your first powwow?

514

: 00:23:28

Have you got lots of questions?

515

: 00:23:29

Click here and I'll answer all of 'em.

516

: 00:23:31

That's enough, right?

517

: 00:23:32

Because that's what they're

coming here for a question.

518

: 00:23:35

If I answer their question

in email, they're gonna gimme

519

: 00:23:38

their email address, right?

520

: 00:23:39

So that, that's another one.

521

: 00:23:41

Brett: So it's almost like if you're

gonna build a website, maybe go through

522

: 00:23:45

it yourself first and see if everything

works correctly, because you're right.

523

: 00:23:48

If it just said, name,

email, I'd be like, for what?

524

: 00:23:52

What?

525

: 00:23:52

Why do I need to do this?

526

: 00:23:55

.

Paul Gowder: Right.

527

: 00:23:56

Brett: So are we gonna see email marketing

become more community based in the future?

528

: 00:24:00

Is it gonna be more about that because

we're all searching for community because

529

: 00:24:05

of the past four years and being locked

up and then missing that community

530

: 00:24:09

side of, because we're all humans,

we all wanna be part of something.

531

: 00:24:12

Are we gonna see more email

marketing become shift to that?

532

: 00:24:15

Because we have social media, we have

algorithms, and they don't . They don't

533

: 00:24:19

really form a community as well anymore

as they used to when they were new.

534

: 00:24:23

Are we gonna see email marketing or emails

in general, just I guess bridge that gap?

535

: 00:24:29

Paul Gowder: I hope so.

536

: 00:24:31

What I'm afraid of and what I'm seeing

some people doing is using chat GPT

537

: 00:24:37

or some other AI to write their email

messages, and yes, that's better than

538

: 00:24:43

the fancy, salesy . Graphic email, but

at some point people can see past that

539

: 00:24:51

and it doesn't it doesn't always relate

to people and talk to, it doesn't.

540

: 00:24:57

Get people to want to interact with the,

so I'm afraid we're gonna see a lot more

541

: 00:25:01

of that first, I think if you want to

really stand out in email marketing,

542

: 00:25:05

if you can find your voice and your

personality and put that into emails, I

543

: 00:25:10

think you're going to kill it in email

because you're going to be doing something

544

: 00:25:14

that just not many people are doing.

545

: 00:25:16

Brett: Gotcha.

546

: 00:25:17

And people are listening to this and

wondering where can they find you online

547

: 00:25:19

to learn more about email marketing?

548

: 00:25:21

Paul Gowder: Yeah, so please

I'd love to help you out.

549

: 00:25:23

If you're looking to level up

your email marketing, you can

550

: 00:25:26

come over to paul gatter.com.

551

: 00:25:27

I have some coaching

there and some courses.

552

: 00:25:30

And if you're looking to just, learn some

of the email tools that I'm using, I, I

553

: 00:25:33

got a video on that, my favorite email

tools, and that's paul gatter.com/email

554

: 00:25:37

tools and that'll get you started

with some of the ti tips and

555

: 00:25:41

tricks I use to grow my email list.

556

: 00:25:43

Brett: Alright, any final

thoughts for listeners?

557

: 00:25:45

Paul Gowder: Yeah.

558

: 00:25:46

Remember, . Community is

not just a Facebook group.

559

: 00:25:49

It's not just TikTok page.

560

: 00:25:51

Community is talking with people.

561

: 00:25:54

So use your email as community.

562

: 00:25:57

Brett: All right.

563

: 00:25:58

Thank you Paul for joining Digital

Coffee Marketing Brew and sharing

564

: 00:26:00

your knowledge on email marketing.

565

: 00:26:03

Paul Gowder: Thank you

566

: 00:26:04

Brett: and thank you for listening.

567

: 00:26:05

As always, please subscribe

to this podcast and all your

568

: 00:26:08

favorite podcasting apps.

569

: 00:26:09

Leave a five star review it really

just help with the rankings.

570

: 00:26:11

Let me know how I'm doing and join me next

week as I talk to another great thought

571

: 00:26:15

leader in the PR and marketing industry.

572

: 00:26:17

Alright guys, stay safe.

573

: 00:26:18

Get to understanding your email marketing,

build that community as well as you

574

: 00:26:21

can, and see you next week later.