Embracing Breaks: Manish Dudharejia on Balancing Hustle and Rest

Manish Dudharejia: 00:00:00

Which is very common.

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It's if you see the pattern of more

successful people, success is all

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about doing boring things consistently

over the longer period of time.

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And entrepreneurship

is all about hustling.

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Doing business is all about hustling.

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But at the same time, find

some time for yourself.

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Reflect.

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Brett: Mm, that's good.

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And welcome to a new episode of

Digital Coffee Marketing Brew, and I'm

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your host, Brett Deister interview.

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Please subscribe to this podcast and

all your favorite podcasting apps.

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Really does help with the rankings

and let me know how I am doing.

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But this week we're gonna talking about.

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A break not your little five, 10 minute

breaks that your company makes you take

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no actual like rest and keeping yourself

from getting a burnout or at least.

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Getting away from the burnout.

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Anyways, I have Monish with me,

and he started this in: 2012

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He was determined to create

a positive company culture.

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He founded E two M, leveraging his

SEO expertise to grow the business,

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starting only with $1,200 in investment.

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Years later, E two M is now a 200.

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Two full-time employee digital agency

specializing in providing white label

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outsourcing services to digital agency.

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But welcome to the show.

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Thank you Grant.

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Thank you for hanging me on the show.

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You're welcome.

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The first question I ask all my guests

is, are you a coffee or tea drinker?

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Manish Dudharejia: I am a tea

drinker, but I love coffee as well.

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Because I'm originally from India and

I'm born and brought up over here.

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You know the history, right?

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Like British people ruled India

and that's the reason, like tea

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is more popular or here in India.

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But I lived in the US and I traveled

a lot in the states as well.

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So I.

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I love coffee, but if I have to choose

one, I'll definitely choose the tea.

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Lower.

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Brett: There's any specific

types of tea do you like?

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Do you like the white,

the black, the ONGs?

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Manish Dudharejia: It's mainly

black tea which is mainly root

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here, like specifically in northeast

part of India, that's where

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we have the biggest thi farms.

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I like green tea as well, so

I love drinking green teas.

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But on a day to day basis I love,

I drink more of a black tea, but

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it's more about, we there is a chai

word for tea which is now popular.

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I see that, a lot of copies.

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Coffee is in the US as well.

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Chai is actually, it's not just the

tea it's blended with milk and, all

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the sort of like Indian herbs like

Cardi and sometimes ginger as well.

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So that's we call it like, masala, chai.

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It's a mix of Indian

herbs with a tea and milk.

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That does it taste really good.

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Brett: Nice.

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Now you have a brief

summary of your expertise.

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Can you little, with the listeners

a little bit more about what you do?

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Manish Dudharejia: I.

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Sure.

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I'm the founder and CEO of E two M.

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Like you said, I started this back in

: 2012

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over 200 people working with over 200

plus agency clients all across the

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world and mainly in the United States.

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And we solve a specific problem.

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Which is like helping agencies

solve bandwidth capacity problems

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with our white level services.

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That includes like building websites with

WordPress, building e-commerce stores,

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doing an SEO and content marketing.

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And also, as we speak we just

acquired another white level WordPress

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deal company this month itself.

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So with that equation, we are gonna add

80 plus new team members to our team.

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And we'll be adding 100 plus agency

clients to our client's portfolio.

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Starting from July, we'll be a team

of over 300 people serving 300 plus

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agency clients and all across the world.

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And that will make us one

of the largest white level

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workplace developer in the world.

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So it's sounds exciting.

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And yeah, there are a lot

of exciting things going on.

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Brett: Nice.

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We're specifically talking about taking

breaks, and so one of the things I saw

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was that this like idea of a 90 day break,

so let's say like an entrepreneur or

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someone or a founder or someone's trying

to start a business, like how can they

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incorporate that into a startup life?

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Because startups are just like fast paced.

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There are barely any breaks and you don't

see many founders taking a lot of breaks.

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Manish Dudharejia: No I agree.

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When I started 12 years back,

I still remember I used to

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work like 18, 20 hours a day.

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I barely used to take like

four to six hours of sleep.

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And taking a break when you

are specifically starting

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up is always challeng me.

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It's always hard, I have some frameworks,

which will be helpful for people who

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are starting up, or people who feel

like burned out and they don't know,

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like how to take a break in between

and, get recharged in order to make sure

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you don't lose your creativity and then

you still keep the momentum going on.

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And I wish I would've learned this way

earlier when I started my business but I'm

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glad I learned that one and a half year

back which is a really good framework I

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learned, and it works out really well.

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So I think we are, we live in a society

where we believe that okay, the weekdays.

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Like Monday to Friday, we have to

have, business hours nine to five

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and then week weekends are more

to get energized and get relaxed.

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But unfortunately that's

not, how it works.

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And I would say it's more of a,

fortunately because I don't think, the

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creativity, intelligence understands.

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The limitations of nine to

five and Monday to Friday.

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So we, human beings are not designed

to think during the specific time

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and during the specific days, right?

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So we often make that mistakes that

we try to be creative during the

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weekdays or during the business

hours, but that's not how it works.

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I understand.

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There are so many things which

are more time sensitive which

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you have to do it anyway, whether

you . You feel like doing it or not?

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Which I get it.

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But here is the thing that you just have

to think like that In order to be creative

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you have to just break this barrier and

you have to just break this a wall of

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understanding that, okay, these are the

times only where you can be creative.

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So I'll just put a really

good example, ago I.

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Ran into a situation where there

were days in the weekdays where I

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wasn't feeling like doing anything.

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I wasn't productive.

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And at the end of day I felt I felt

like the regretting that I was seeing

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that, my team was really productive.

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I didn't accomplish anything.

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And I felt kind of regret.

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And that kind of made me

more think about that.

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Whether should I feel it regretting

or not or that's how I am.

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And that led me, made me more

curious and started, I started

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learning more and more about it.

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I started reading more and more about it.

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And that's how, I ended up into finding.

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Some of the like, validations and I would

say more of a conclusion for myself, and

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which I found a common pattern in highly

successful people as well that you should

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really follow a lion framework, right?

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And I learned about this lion

framework one and a half year ago.

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And there is a guy called Noel . He

is a very popular philosopher.

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Highly reput and highly popular

guy in startup tech investments.

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And I always love the way he

thinks and then I got to learn

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about this line framework while

reading his wisdoms and stuffs.

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Essentially it's rest,

repeat, and sprint, right?

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So ideally you should . There are always

days there are times in a week where

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you are fully energized and when you

are highly motivated and that's where

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you should be working on your all the

priority things and all the things

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which you have on your to-do list.

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And that's your sprint time.

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So there are days where I take an example

of myself, there are still days, where

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I work like 12 to 15, 16 hours a day.

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But those are the days when I'm super,

super energized and I'm super supercharged

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and I'm super, super motivated.

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That's my sprint time, right?

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And there are one or two days I work

like that and there are one or two days

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where I don't feel like working where

I'm just doing some other stuff and.

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That is my rest time, right?

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Which is more about like you are

not being harsh on yourself and you

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don't feel regret if you don't do it

because you are mentally prepared.

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This is my more of a rest

time and that ans that kind of

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brings to your thing as well.

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Taking a break.

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So let's take an example.

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You know that there are times when you are

super charged and you run a sprint, then

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you, there is a time you take a break.

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And then you repeat, right?

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So ideally what you have to do

is being, when you are starting a

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business or you are at a position

in your business where you feel

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like, okay, your schedule is crazy.

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It's very hard for you to take a long

breaks, then this is the framework you

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feel you should really try to follow.

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And you can actually Google it

in so called a lion framework.

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Rest, repeat.

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And sprint sprint, rest and

repeat, I would call it.

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Put it like that.

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So that is something you should

really focus on, which kind of helps

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you to take in between your weeks

rather than taking long breaks.

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Brett: Yeah, that's it's pretty

interesting about the lion method.

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'cause you're right, we don't always.

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We're not always creative.

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Nine to five.

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Hell, sometimes I'm creative at

3:00 AM in the morning or I have a

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dream and it's oh, now I'm creative.

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Or I go on a walk with my

very noisy dogs right now.

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But let's say they can't take a 90 break.

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Let's say they can only

do like maybe once a week.

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Is that beneficial for them as well?

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Taking that one time off?

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Maybe doing some chores, but not really

focusing on like heavy, like work.

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Manish Dudharejia: Yeah, I think,

you e everyone have their own time

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of identifying that, okay, these

are the days and these are the times

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I'm super, super charged, right?

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And these are the times I

don't feel like productive.

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So if I take in my example

I'm more productive at night.

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So I'm not an early riser.

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I, some of the things, sometimes I

have to do some of the most important

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items and then things to work on.

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I usually stay up till late

when I'm fully focused.

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I don't have any disturbance.

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I don't have any kind of notifications

and I can actually do a focused

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work and I'm, I prefer to do, not

doing any meetings before 11 and I

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prefer to do my important meetings.

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Which is in the before lunch,

in the morning and post lunch, I

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don't feel super, super productive.

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So that's where I'll keep my other

meetings where it's more about the

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discussions and we don't have to do a

lot of brainstorming and in the evening

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time I don't feel so much productive.

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So take that time off.

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To do something different, right?

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So I think, you identified called

like hyper productive type.

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So when you are super hyper productive

those are the times, you try to finish

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as much as you have on your plate and the

times when you are not productive those

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are the times, like you said, you take

a walk or if you love to play any sort

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of musical instruments, you play that.

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Or you maybe hit the gym or

whatever it works for you.

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Start feeling like lethargic

you start moving your body.

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So that's the sign where you don't

force yourself to work on something.

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That's the time you have to move your

body and just do it what you really like

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instead of like just, where you sit and

keep working where you know that you

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will not be getting the desired output.

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Brett: Got you.

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And maybe people aren't like convinced

right now, like how, what are the

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benefits of actually taking a break

besides rest, but what are the benefits?

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Is it creating, is it

making your mind sharper?

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Is it being more creative that way?

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Is the rest actually like

that beneficial for them?

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Because I'm pretty sure like

everybody's focused on their job.

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They're like, I wanna

do the best job I can.

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But sometimes it's just convincing

people that breast actually does

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make you better at your job.

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Manish Dudharejia: That's a good question.

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See, it breaks the pattern, right?

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Technically what happens, I'll

take an analogy of driving, right?

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Think like that.

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All this, fancy cars and all the

latest cars when you are driving

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and when you are driving for an

hour or two at certain kilometers,

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it'll give you a kind of a warning

that, hey, you should take a break.

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And.

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Have some coffee or something.

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It'll show it on your

speedometer screen itself.

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The reason is, there is a pattern, right?

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You are driving for two to three hours.

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The chances are most likely high, where

you start feeling like busy, where you

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might fi start like feeling like sleepy.

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Now we have all these autonomous cars,

so thanks to that, but think like that.

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The same goes with work as well.

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When you are working and there

is a . There is one technique

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called, I think it's a Pomodoro.

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Yeah it's called a Pomodoro.

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It's a Pomodoro timer, right?

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Pomodoro technique.

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A Pomodoro technique is you set,

like if there is a one hour of task.

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You could like 15 minutes of task and

then 10 minutes break, another 15 minutes

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of task and 10 minutes break, right?

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It's called the promoter timer,

and there is an app for that.

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You can activate, install it on your

computer or mobile phone as well.

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So essentially it's all about the

breaking the pattern when you are working

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for a longer period of time, taking

a break, it just breaks the pattern.

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It resets your mind by switching your mind

to doing something different, completely

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different than what you are doing, right?

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And essentially, if you see the sleep

is sleep does the same thing to your

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mind, it is breaking the pattern, right?

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And sometimes you like, taking a

shower, just breaking your pattern.

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The biggest benefit of taking

a break is it helps you.

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Break the pattern in order for your mind

to be open for any creative new ideas.

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Brett: Got you.

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And for that is, is like

breaking the pattern connect.

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Can that also be part of the pattern too?

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Because there's something

called like block scheduling

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or block or blocking on your.

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Calendar where you block time out.

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Is that the more beneficial way of

doing it by blocking your time so

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you can actually take the breaks?

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Or is it more spontaneous?

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Just, I'm gonna take a break now because

I'm trying to be spontaneous and break

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the cycle or the habit or whatever.

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Manish Dudharejia: So I would say

at least once a week you should

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block your entire calendar.

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And you don't decide what you will

be, what you are gonna do on that

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day unless at the same time as an

entrepreneur, as a, like a business

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owner, you should not be raise yet

that, Hey, I have blocked my calendar.

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So today I said I'm not gonna do

anything, which is fine, but there are

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times, there are days where you have

to do it, although it's boring, right?

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Because that's what the need

of a business, although it's

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boring, you still have to do it.

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But I would say, yeah, I think that's

a, that's the way I also do it where

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sometimes you just block entire day.

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And if that's not the,

privilege you have probably like

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blocking some hours of the day.

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When you are more proactive, those are

the times you block on your calendar.

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And then those are the times.

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Ideally you don't decide anything.

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This is the thing I'm gonna

work on because, sometimes our

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minds are not ready for that.

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You are blocked.

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Particular, my, my classic example

is like that, think like that you

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have blocked the calendar and you

have sent, send an invite to your,

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one of your team member that okay.

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Of, in afternoon three to five, we are

gonna discuss marketing ideas, right?

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And believe me, that's not

how you will get ideas.

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Not at all, right?

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Probably you just have to.

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Hang out with your marketing team

more casually, maybe take out them

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on a lunch or dinner and then,

start having that casual discussion.

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Those are the times when you'll come

up with a really good ideas other

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than scheduling that brainstorming

ideas meeting on your calendar.

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Yeah, I think there is no rule of thumb.

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That you block entire day or

you just block couple of hours.

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It really depends on what your

business schedule looks like.

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Not everyone have that luxury or

privilege to block entire day.

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In that case, you just block

certain number of hours.

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Brett: Got you.

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And and how has it helped you

for doing this type of thing?

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Ha.

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Have you seen the benefit of you

working better to be more creative?

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Being nicer to your team at more times?

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Manish Dudharejia: Yeah.

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It worked out for me actually really

well, because, now I have more clarity,

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and I do accomplish more this way

rather than feeling like an obligation

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that, okay, I have to work this many.

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Days and I have to work

during these hours.

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Yeah, I have to available

during the critical times.

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Although, I don't like to do that as

well, but it's more about when your job

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does not have a schedule that you have to

accomplish this every single day, then you

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should definitely plan it in a way where

you are accomplishing what is needed.

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But at the same time you are, you

don't have an obligation for days and

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hours where you have to manually work

on the things because that's where you

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will feel, you'll feel more exhausted.

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So it's like that.

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If there is a day where you are working

like 16, 18 hours a day, because.

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That's where you are

more inspired naturally.

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Then obviously the second

day you go slowly, right?

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Because you will not be able to be

creative and you really need a rest

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to get charged off for the day after.

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So you just have to identify your

pattern based on your business needs.

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But yeah, it personally definitely helped

me a lot to accomplish actually more

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and helped me be more organized and.

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It helped me a lot to be clear

in my head what's actually looks

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like to be really productive.

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Brett: Got it.

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Got you.

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And I mean for the founders, it seems

like if you're on your boss, you could

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do that for the regular employees.

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How do they convince their

boss or maybe how do they find

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ways of taking that break?

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Because most bosses are like, you gotta

get here nine to five, you gotta work.

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: 00:18:57

You're not gonna have these

like breaks that you want to

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take, or all day off breaks.

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: 00:19:02

So how do you like balance that part

out for just the regular employees?

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Manish Dudharejia: No, that's a

great question and a lot of people

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: 00:19:09

have asked me this similar question.

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: 00:19:11

So here is the thing.

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Now, unfortunately, that's not the

luxury and that's not the privilege.

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: 00:19:16

Everyone have c certain types of jobs

which required to be, available during the

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specific days and specific time period.

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Let's take an example of customer

service people where they have to be

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available during the specific days

and specific hours, because that's

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a nature of their job is but there

are lot of jobs, creatives where,

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: 00:19:38

you know, you, at the end of day you

have to produce an output, right?

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: 00:19:43

And it doesn't matter that whether you

are working nine to five or whether

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: 00:19:46

you start working early and you.

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Finish off your day early or

you start working late and

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: 00:19:52

finish your day late as well.

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: 00:19:54

So I think, like I said, it's

not luxury or plus for everyone.

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: 00:19:59

It really depends on your job profile.

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: 00:20:01

But I think everyone have that I would

say majority have that flexibility.

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: 00:20:07

So what we do at our company,

people have their flexibility.

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In certain jobs.

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: 00:20:11

Yeah, I understand.

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They have to accomplish at the same

time, like I was saying, even as

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a founder, although, we have the

privilege, we have the luxury to decide

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where we want to when we want to work.

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There are days where we

cannot have that luxury.

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We have to do it because

that's the business need.

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: 00:20:28

So now that's, that goes same with

people who also have flexibility in

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their jobs, where although they have

flexibility, but there are days.

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: 00:20:38

When they have to be available,

although they don't like it.

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: 00:20:42

And that kind of relates to one

of the favorite things which I

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read and which is very common.

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: 00:20:48

It's if you see the pattern of more

successful people, success is all

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: 00:20:53

about doing boring things consistently

over the longer period of time.

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: 00:20:57

If you see the successful people,

the one of the most qualities you

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: 00:21:02

will see in them is persistence.

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: 00:21:05

Like they have a pattern of doing the

most boring things on a consistent basis.

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: 00:21:10

So that's a reality as well.

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: 00:21:14

But that's not true all the times.

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: 00:21:16

And there are and if you are

creative and if you need to function.

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: 00:21:22

Without working in specific time,

you'll always figure out these.

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: 00:21:26

Brett: And so people are listening

to this and they're like more

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: 00:21:30

interested in what you do and like more

learning about how they can do this.

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: 00:21:33

So where can they find you online?

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: 00:21:35

Manish Dudharejia: I'm more

active on LinkedIn, Twitter.

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: 00:21:38

It's, my name is Manis reia.

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: 00:21:40

It's only me on this

first name and last name.

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: 00:21:43

And we, our website,

e two m solutions com.

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: 00:21:46

That's our company's website.

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: 00:21:48

That's where you can learn more

about what we do and that's what

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: 00:21:52

pretty much majority of time I do.

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: 00:21:54

No.

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: 00:21:55

I believe I just one advice from

from a founder to a founder and,

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: 00:21:59

from one business person to other

business person is don't go.

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: 00:22:03

I know.

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: 00:22:03

And entrepreneurship

is all about hustling.

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: 00:22:06

Doing business is all about hustling.

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: 00:22:09

But at the same time, find some

time for yourself, reflect on

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: 00:22:13

your experiencing thoughts.

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: 00:22:16

And take it easy.

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: 00:22:17

You, it's a sprint.

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: 00:22:18

You are gonna, you are

playing a long-term game.

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: 00:22:21

So yes, there are days where you will

find, you'll feel burned out, but

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: 00:22:27

always think remember, remind yourself

like, why did you start it here?

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: 00:22:30

Regionally, right?

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: 00:22:31

And that will always.

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: 00:22:33

Keeps you going on.

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: 00:22:35

Brett: All right, thank you Manish for

joining Digital Coffee Marketing brand

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: 00:22:39

sharing knowledge on taking breaks.

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: 00:22:41

Manish Dudharejia: Yeah, thank you.

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: 00:22:41

Thank you, Brett, for having me,

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: 00:22:43

Brett: and thank you for listening.

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: 00:22:45

As always, please subscribe to this

podcast on all your favorite podcasting.

414

: 00:22:48

Have a five star review, really

does help with the rankings.

415

: 00:22:50

Let me know I'm doing and join me next

week as a talk to the great thought

416

: 00:22:54

leader in the PR and marketing industry.

417

: 00:22:56

Alright guys, stay safe.

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: 00:22:57

Get the understanding how to take a break

that works for you and see you next week.

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: 00:23:02

Later.