Mastering B2B Marketing with Philipa Gamse: Strategies, Analytics, and AI Insights

Brett Deister: 00:00:12

Mm, that's good.

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And welcome to a new episode of

Digital Coffee Marketing Brew,

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and I'm your host, Brett Deister.

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And this week we're gonna be talking

about B2B marketing the most.

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Exciting marketing.

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Not really exciting, but it's one of those

marketings that we all need to know about.

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And even though it may not be the

most exciting part, it is very

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important for a lot of businesses.

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But with me, I have Philippa with me, and

she has, she's done a lot in this area.

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She can help you.

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Mostly digital marketing

strategies, digital analytics.

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That means GA four, which is the newest.

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Google Analytics out there, which

is a different little plug or

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a different little number thing

that you have to use besides the

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previous one, which is the UTA, but

we'll get in more of that as well.

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And she just has certificate

certification, cer, certified management

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consultant, and she's British as well.

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So we'll get a nice little

English accent as well.

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So welcome to the show.

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Phillipa Gamse: Hi, Brett.

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Thank you.

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What you just said reminded me of

that famous saying, it's a terrible

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thing happens if you don't advertise.

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Remember that?

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Brett Deister: Yes.

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Yes.

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It really is a terrible thing.

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If you never advertise yourself,

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Phillipa Gamse: you never

advertise, you get nothing.

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Brett Deister: It's true.

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You always gotta spend money to make

money as the other one, I think is

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Phillipa Gamse: right.

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Brett Deister: Anyways, the first

question is, all my guests is,

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are you a coffee or a tea drinker?

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Phillipa Gamse: Both if that's allowed.

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So I am British, right?

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So I have to drink.

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I have, right now I probably have

nearly 800 tea bags stashed away

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proper English tea in proper tea bags

without, the paper and all the, little.

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Things that you pick it up with.

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We just have big boxes of tea in

England with, in the supermarket and

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it's much cheaper than it is here.

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So I do have that, but I have

to say that I also treated

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myself to an espresso machine.

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So I'm allowed one espresso coffee

in the morning, and so both.

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Brett Deister: So you're still

very European about your coffee.

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'cause you said espresso instead

of just the actual drip coffee.

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Because I know in like places like Italy,

they just don't do drip coffee at all.

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They may give you an Americano, which

was an insult to Americans because

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they put hot water with an espresso.

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Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, no, sorry.

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Actually that was a product advertisement

because I actually said Nespresso,

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so I've got one of those machines.

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But yeah,

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Brett Deister: no, no worries.

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And I gave a brief summary of your

expertise, but can you give my audience

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a little bit more about what you do?

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Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, so basically

I, I'm a digital marketing strategy

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and analytics consultant which

I've been doing for a while.

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And I do that because I feel like a lot

of people they jump straight into tactics.

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Oh gosh, we've gotta do SEO,

we've gotta do social media,

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and what they don't do is stop.

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And come up with a holistic

plan before they do anything

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that says, what's our goals?

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What are we trying to do?

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What's the best way to get to

where we wanna go, and how does,

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how will all the things that we

are doing fit together, right?

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To create a full picture and then

intelligently use analytics to

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figure out whether or not what

you're trying to do is working.

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Um, it's not maybe the most sexy part of

it all, although of course I think it is.

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It's not, it's, it's not that you are

immediately doing something that generates

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results when you create strategy, but

on the other hand, because you're a

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framework, so you know what you're trying

to go and when you're getting there.

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That, that's my goal.

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I understand stuff like SEO

and so on, but I used to do it.

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I don't do it as a consultant anymore.

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I'm the one that sort of

says, here's a great idea.

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Go away and make it happen.

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Brett Deister: Yeah, I understand what

you're saying is, 'cause most people,

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it's more of the big words are like,

Hey, we need to do SEO, but no one really

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knows how to do SEO, they just need, they

just know how to say we need to do SEO.

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Phillipa Gamse: The truth is that there

are lots of really good SEO folks around

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and it's a very specialized subject

and it's, you can't be everything.

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Marketing to me is very interesting

these days because there are so many

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different skills that come into play.

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And there are people who are

incredibly creative and make

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incredibly creative writing or media

or advertising, whatever it is.

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And then there are people who

are incredibly analytical on

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the other end of the spectrum.

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And you need all of that.

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In marketing.

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So I'm choosing to hang out mostly

at the analytical end, although I do

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write and I speak I'm not visually

creative, for example, so I'm not the

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one that can make the great visuals.

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But yeah I think it's important

to really understand what you

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specialize in and focus on that.

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Brett Deister: And so since I feel like

: 2023

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forefront of everything in marketing.

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How has that affected the SEO side of it?

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Are, we're gonna see more of

that in: 2024

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The prevalence of how AI has touched

every bit of PR and marketing.

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I feel like there, I can't get

away from talking about ai.

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Phillipa Gamse: Yeah honestly, I, as I

said, I'm not the SEO expert as such.

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You know what it.

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Seems to be is that it's

very helpful in being a tool.

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So it can generate ideas, it can generate

content ideas, it can do keyword research.

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But I am certainly seeing I get PR

requests every day, most of them say, do

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not send me something that's AI generated.

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So in other words, use it to get

ideas, use it to get a first draft.

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But then add your own spin at, so

it, it sounds like you, it looks

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like, it's personalized and it's not.

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AI writing tends to be maybe a

little generic, maybe a little less

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personal because of course it's

written off of existing material.

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That's how it's trained, right?

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You just wanna polish it and make

it a bit more original in the end.

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Brett Deister: Yeah.

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I think the older models, I think ga

not GA four, but was chat, GPT-4 is

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actually getting a little bit more

personal about it, so we could be

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seeing a little bit more blending of it.

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But I understand what

you're saying is that.

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Yeah, you can let, you can have it

write it, but you go back through

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it and try to put more personality

into it, is what I'm hearing.

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Phillipa Gamse: And that's what I'm,

I'm just saying that, this isn't my

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area of specific expertise, but I'm

certainly seeing advice that you

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shouldn't use it for your final product.

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Brett Deister: Yeah that's fair.

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And what have you seen

in the B2B marketing?

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Have you seen any of the emerging

technologies being used Very much.

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Have you seen like any of the websites,

like any of that type of stuff, have

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you seen that being prevalent in B2B

as it still really stuck in the B2C

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and 'cause I know B2B is a little bit

more slowly transitions to more of

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the new herd technology, but they wait

a lot longer than the B2C portions.

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Phillipa Gamse: Yeah I think it,

it depends what you're selling

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and what kind of a company you are

and sites are very innovative.

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So I'm not sure that's a

specifically B2B B2C distinction.

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There are also plenty of pizza

sea sites that are still not as

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sophisticated as they should be.

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Could be, I should say.

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Brett Deister: And for the digital

analytics, what should marketers

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be focusing on now or in 2024?

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Because Google's always switching their

stuff around, so what is specifically

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should they be looking at for, to

help their bosses understand like

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what's being, what's the success

and what do they need to work on?

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Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, so honestly,

the biggest mistake that I see

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businesses making with analytics

is what I was talking about in the

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beginning, is that it's the same thing.

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They jump in and.

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They look for what should I see here?

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And on Google Analytics or any

analytics platform I, there

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are a lot of default reports.

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So there's massive numbers of reports,

massive amounts of charts and numbers.

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And if you don't dunno what you're

looking for, you can get completely

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overwhelmed and you are unlikely to get

anything out of it that's actually useful.

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Unless you have that strategy in place

so that you can go to the analytics and

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say this is what we're trying to do.

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These are the KPIs, these

are the metrics that.

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Our measures of success, whether that's

growing conversions by X percent,

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growing the number of people who read

our blog posts getting more leads,

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whatever it is that you're trying to

do, or reducing our cost of acquisition.

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Unless you're looking at the numbers

with a question in mind it's difficult

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to get useful things out of it.

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On the other hand a lot of

people hate GA four, right?

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Because it's certainly not.

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Simple.

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It's not easy.

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It's complex to implement in a really

fully customized way, but if you do,

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there are amazing rewards for it because

it can really drill down into your

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data and give you some insights that.

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You are likely not to have seen

without that ability to really

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get into what you're looking at.

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You can, especially using a tool

like Google Tag Manager, you

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can really customize to get,

to really into what you want.

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Are a podcast host, right?

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So for example, most podcast

sites have a long list of

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episodes on their website, right?

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So the latest webs, the latest

episode goes at the top of the list

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and everything else moves down one.

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And what you end up with is a

huge amount of amazing content

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that's essentially wasted because

nobody goes, nobody sees it.

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'cause it's too far down the page, right?

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And one of the things that you can

do in analytics is do things like,

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see how far down the page people look

or if there are specific topics or

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categories of content that they're

interested in, which ones those are.

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So that you can really find

all sorts of ways to, to.

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Leverage and continue to leverage the

content that you've got, rather than just

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having the one episode and after a couple

of weeks, it's got no traction anymore.

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And a lot of people don't really think

about this because they're not seeing the

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stats of who's consuming what content.

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Brett Deister: Well, talking podcasts

specifically, you're also competing

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with Apple Podcast, Spotify, and all the

other ones that you put your podcast on.

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So you have podcasters have a very

unique, like competition from their

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own podcast on a different site because

the other different site is more

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reputable, but than your own website.

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Phillipa Gamse: But and in, you talked

about, B2B, for example, something

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else that I see a lot of that, that the

businesses aren't aware of is if is video.

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So with a tool like GA four,

you can literally get into, if

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you've got YouTube video right?

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Embedded on your website I mean you can

do this on YouTube too, but if you've got

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video on your website, how many people

watch the video and how much of the video

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do they watch, which is more important.

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And a lot of people don't realize,

in general, about 50% of your

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audience for your video drop

off in the first 30 seconds.

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That's huge.

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And by, by about a minute.

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You've lost 90%.

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I've seen this again and again.

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Unless, which is why when you start

your video, you've gotta say, here's

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the reason you should watch this video.

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And if you watch it all the

way through to the end, I'll be

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telling you something amazing.

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And I, you've really got to grab people

and tell them why they need to watch it.

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And so many businesses spend a lot

of money and resources on making

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video that frankly nobody watches.

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Again and they don't

know that's happening.

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So Yeah, it's,

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Brett Deister: Yeah, it's that and just

the, I guess the popularity of short form

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content has made people not willing to

spend as much time trying to figure out

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if they really wanna listen to it, they'll

tell, they'll probably spend even less

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probably spend about maybe generously

three seconds on a video and then they'll.

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They'll go off somewhere else

because TikTok and shorts and

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reels have really made attention

spans even worse than before.

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Phillipa Gamse: But those

offer entertainment.

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If your video is an informational video,

if the information's good, and again,

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if you make it compelling and you tell

people what's coming up, they will

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watch it if they need that information.

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So it depends on the nature

of the video as well.

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Brett Deister: True.

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It depends on your audience, depends on

the nature of the video and it depends

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on the industry itself at the same time.

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Because I mean if people are

specifically looking for the industry

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your video could do very well.

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But if it's a very popular industry,

it could do not as well if maybe 'cause

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it's not as highly produced or whatever.

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So there's a lot of factors in video

because video is something that even

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podcasters need to consider, but.

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You can be forgiven for having

less quality video, but your

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audio has to be good because

people cannot stand bad audio.

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Phillipa Gamse: Yeah.

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And podcasts of course, are the sort

of flavor of the month right now.

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They've been for a while, yeah.

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So audio definitely important.

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Brett Deister: Yeah, and just

from stats that I've seen with

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podcasting, they say that.

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In the morning afternoon, people

will listen to the audio, but at

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night they'll listen to video.

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So you also have to consider like

people's habits on when they listen

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to audio, to when listen to video.

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And that could actually

help businesses as well too.

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Maybe they just release it their video

later at tonight and they release

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their, and all that stuff because

everything's about timing sometimes,

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and you have to figure this out.

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Phillipa Gamse: Which again is back

to analytics because that's the kind

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of thing that you can see is, what's

the most popular day of the week,

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if that's relevant, time of day that

people are consuming the most content.

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Or, and again, one of the great things

about analytics is that you can drill

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down and segment your audience into

different categories because looking

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at all of your visitors in one.

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Conglomerate mass doesn't work.

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'cause people are doing

things for different reasons.

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So it's not just who watches

your video, but looking at the

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outcomes of watching your video.

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So if your video's designed to create an

action I don't know, buy something, sign

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up for a list, whatever it is, when do

your most qualified visitors watch video?

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So not just when do all visitors

watch video, but when do your most,

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your best visitors watch video?

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And you can get to that

level of granularity and

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that can be really helpful.

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Brett Deister: Yeah, it.

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Like I said, it's all about timing.

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You're right, like

granular, you can do this.

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But for SEO specifically, is content

more the forefront now given with GA

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four is are, is Google caring more

about the authenticity of content?

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Because I know before it's been like just.

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Back links and like they said, it has to

be a good back link, not a bad back link

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because everybody was just throwing back

links at it just to get their website.

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So are we gonna see that

more with content too?

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Good to content versus bad content?

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Because everybody can make content

and then you have to consider if it's

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actually gonna be good, trustworthy,

educational, and all that stuff.

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Are we gonna see more of that with

Google changing their algorithms?

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So they always change

that CO all the time.

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Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, no, we already are.

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Google is much more focused now

on the value of the content.

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Is it helpful to the audience?

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Do the audience spend time on it?

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You, what Google doesn't wanna

see is that they go, they click on

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a link in Google through to your

site, and then they bounce back.

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Because what that tells Google

is that content isn't useful.

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So these days, quality engagement value

is much more important than the, in some

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ways than the backlinks and the keywords

and which is still obviously very key.

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But yes, quality is really important.

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I.

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Brett Deister: And so should let's say

B2B want to get into more video focused

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because they haven't been video focused.

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Should they use AI to help, like

maybe do the ideation part of it?

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Because AI is great for helping people.

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I should, you shouldn't just, you trust

AI completely and be like, do it all

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for me, because I've seen videos of

AI creating videos and they're weird.

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They're really weird.

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So should they help

start that process off?

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'cause I'm pretty sure a

lot of marketers aren't.

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Versed in video production.

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Phillipa Gamse: Oh yeah.

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No, it's great for ideation and for

generate me 20 potential titles for this

305

: 00:16:40

video so that, I can see which one I like.

306

: 00:16:41

That kind of stuff is very

fun to do and very helpful.

307

: 00:16:45

Yeah, no I wasn't saying

to discount AI at all.

308

: 00:16:48

Obviously you can't and you but you

need to think about what you want it

309

: 00:16:51

to do for you so that the way that

you prompt it is gets you the sorts

310

: 00:16:57

of responses that are helpful to you.

311

: 00:17:01

Brett Deister: That's true.

312

: 00:17:01

It's almost like Google search.

313

: 00:17:03

If you do the wrong prompt, you're

never gonna get the right answer.

314

: 00:17:06

And I've used some of it.

315

: 00:17:07

I've used Bard's a little bit

better on like creating scripts

316

: 00:17:11

and Jet GPT is good for like

specific answers to your questions.

317

: 00:17:15

So like

318

: 00:17:19

for this should, is there a

difference between which ones they

319

: 00:17:23

should be using and for ai like.

320

: 00:17:29

Do you have any ways of

creating the successful prompts?

321

: 00:17:31

Because prompts are just kinda

like the bread and butter for ai.

322

: 00:17:35

So do you have any insight into

creating good prompts for ai?

323

: 00:17:39

Phillipa Gamse: I'm finding

that you learn as you go along.

324

: 00:17:42

You, the it's, the experience

also tells you what kind of, of

325

: 00:17:46

what you're gonna get back and

therefore what's gonna work for you.

326

: 00:17:49

And again, I should say that AI isn't.

327

: 00:17:52

My specific expertise.

328

: 00:17:53

I don't wanna give you a list of tools.

329

: 00:17:55

I've tried various things but I think

businesses that wanna use it should,

330

: 00:17:59

because there are so many tools, you

need to figure out which one's gonna work

331

: 00:18:03

for the specific needs that you have.

332

: 00:18:07

Brett Deister: Yeah.

333

: 00:18:07

There's always one popping up.

334

: 00:18:09

I can't even keep up with all the

tools popping up that are featuring ai.

335

: 00:18:13

And I'm like, okay, I'm now like, is

this really gonna help me or is this

336

: 00:18:17

just another tool to play around with?

337

: 00:18:19

Phillipa Gamse: And in some ways

when it says featuring ai, to

338

: 00:18:21

some extent you could argue it is

been around for a while already.

339

: 00:18:25

And that essentially using a

computer is using a form of ai.

340

: 00:18:28

So, maybe not very sophisticated,

but, I, it's, yeah.

341

: 00:18:33

Brett Deister: You could even

say going further back, like

342

: 00:18:35

machine learning was, the.

343

: 00:18:37

Precursor to AI because machine learning

was learning things and it gave you,

344

: 00:18:42

for the most part, it was not bad.

345

: 00:18:43

Google Assistant, which is

machine learning, is pretty

346

: 00:18:46

good at giving you answers.

347

: 00:18:48

It's not a hundred percent correct,

but it's 80 something percent.

348

: 00:18:51

I think it's 80% correct.

349

: 00:18:53

So you could say that machine learning was

like the precursor to what AI is trying

350

: 00:18:58

to become is the best way of saying it.

351

: 00:19:02

And what are some of like

traditional tactics that B2B

352

: 00:19:05

should still consider using?

353

: 00:19:06

Because we could talk about the future

stuff, all the all we want, but we always

354

: 00:19:09

know that like word of mouth is king.

355

: 00:19:12

Like you can never not say enough about

word of mouth because word of mouth just

356

: 00:19:16

is the thing that you can never replace.

357

: 00:19:18

So what traditional marketing

tactics should they should still

358

: 00:19:23

be considered, including SEO?

359

: 00:19:26

Phillipa Gamse: You know, I think I've

e screenshot now, but back in: 2008

360

: 00:19:30

which is now, what, 16 years ago I think

it was: 2008

361

: 00:19:37

big headline article called Email is Dead.

362

: 00:19:41

And the premise was

nobody uses email anymore.

363

: 00:19:43

It's boring, millennials don't

like it, et cetera, et cetera.

364

: 00:19:47

And here we are in 2024 and every

marketing survey that you look at that

365

: 00:19:53

says, how do marketers prefer, or what's

the best quality communication tool?

366

: 00:19:59

Email is right up there.

367

: 00:20:01

It hasn't gone anywhere.

368

: 00:20:02

So that's one that, that, you can't ignore

email and, keeping your list clean and

369

: 00:20:08

so that it's up to date and doing all

those kinds of things really important.

370

: 00:20:12

One of the biggest mistakes that I

continue to see apart from not creating

371

: 00:20:17

your strategy in the first place.

372

: 00:20:20

Is lack of calls to action.

373

: 00:20:22

So it's still amazing to me the number

of websites where, you've got a page

374

: 00:20:27

of incredible information, maybe a

blog or maybe a video, whatever it is.

375

: 00:20:32

And there's nothing that says,

okay, what do you, wait, what?

376

: 00:20:35

What do you want me to do now?

377

: 00:20:37

How can I get this?

378

: 00:20:39

How can you help me with this?

379

: 00:20:41

And it's amazing to me that people

forget the call to action or they put

380

: 00:20:45

the call to action, at the bottom of

the page, assuming that everybody's

381

: 00:20:49

gonna read all the way down to the

end of the page, which not many people

382

: 00:20:52

do, which is back to the analytics can

tell you where people tend to fall off.

383

: 00:20:57

Scrolling down a page.

384

: 00:20:59

And I say to people, there's absolutely

no reason why you shouldn't have your

385

: 00:21:02

call to action several times on the

page so that people see it and they

386

: 00:21:08

see it at the point where based on your

content, they're probably saying if

387

: 00:21:13

they're gonna be interested, they're

probably saying, okay, how do I get this?

388

: 00:21:17

Tell me more.

389

: 00:21:18

Those kinds of engagement emotions.

390

: 00:21:22

That's where you want a call to action.

391

: 00:21:24

And it it's just, it's amazing, as I

said to me, how many people how many

392

: 00:21:29

sites still don't do that effectively.

393

: 00:21:33

Brett Deister: So it's still like back

to the traditional press release of

394

: 00:21:36

making sure everything's importance on

the first paragraph at least, maybe a

395

: 00:21:41

little bit further down, but at least

somewhere in the top where people be like,

396

: 00:21:44

oh, can I click this to go over here?

397

: 00:21:47

And then making sure you have

the sales aspect of marketing.

398

: 00:21:50

'cause marketing is.

399

: 00:21:52

Like really closely tied with sales.

400

: 00:21:54

So you have to have a you

should sign up for this.

401

: 00:21:57

We'll give you like a free thing if

you sign up for our email newsletter

402

: 00:22:00

or some type of call to action.

403

: 00:22:01

I.

404

: 00:22:01

So you, you're seeing a lot of businesses

still forget the call to action part.

405

: 00:22:07

Phillipa Gamse: Yes.

406

: 00:22:07

Yeah, absolutely.

407

: 00:22:08

I'm I'm saying you've got to have a

strategy for your digital marketing.

408

: 00:22:12

You've gotta have a strategy for

your website, but not only a strategy

409

: 00:22:15

for your website in terms of what

do you want that the site as a whole

410

: 00:22:18

to doing, but essentially, every

page of your site should have, its.

411

: 00:22:24

Strategy.

412

: 00:22:25

So for every page of content that

you have, you wanna be saying

413

: 00:22:30

what do I want people to do as

a result of seeing this page?

414

: 00:22:34

And I mean it, it's unlikely.

415

: 00:22:37

Your answer to that would be that's fine.

416

: 00:22:39

They can just go away.

417

: 00:22:40

You probably want them to do something,

and if you want them to do something,

418

: 00:22:44

you've gotta tell 'em what that

is and you've gotta tell 'em how

419

: 00:22:47

to do it and make it really easy.

420

: 00:22:49

Because if you don't, and again,

you know with analytics, you can

421

: 00:22:52

see the paths that people take.

422

: 00:22:53

You can see how people

move through the site.

423

: 00:22:56

So you can see how many people drop off.

424

: 00:22:57

You can see where do they go to next.

425

: 00:23:00

And the majority of the time, it's

not where you would want them to go.

426

: 00:23:05

And many site owners, designers, et

cetera, they're it's not your fault.

427

: 00:23:10

You're so close to your own site

that a number of people who've said

428

: 00:23:14

to me, but Philippa, it's obvious

because they're so close to it.

429

: 00:23:18

And I say no.

430

: 00:23:19

It's obvious to you, but it's

not obvious to somebody who's

431

: 00:23:23

seeing this for the first time.

432

: 00:23:26

So you have to drive people

to the outcomes that you want.

433

: 00:23:31

Brett Deister: So it's almost like

trying, and I did this for one company

434

: 00:23:35

where they gave me a software and I

was pretending to be like someone new.

435

: 00:23:39

And I was like, okay, where

are the pain points here?

436

: 00:23:42

Where am I going?

437

: 00:23:43

Okay, this is confusing.

438

: 00:23:45

It's almost like you have to get in that

mindset of, I've never done this before.

439

: 00:23:49

Where am I going?

440

: 00:23:50

And is this the, is

this where I need to go?

441

: 00:23:54

Phillipa Gamse: User testing.

442

: 00:23:55

One of the great ways to do

user testing is to give somebody

443

: 00:23:59

who has never seen your site

before, as you said a task to do.

444

: 00:24:04

And just walk away.

445

: 00:24:05

Stand behind them.

446

: 00:24:05

If you wanna watch where you can obviously

record it as well, but don't prompt them.

447

: 00:24:10

Stand back and watch how they go about it.

448

: 00:24:13

And that can be incredibly informative

about what's obvious and what's not.

449

: 00:24:18

Another piece of it is the

search engine on your site.

450

: 00:24:21

So if you talking B2B many B2B sites could

really benefit from a good search engine.

451

: 00:24:26

That actually searches there

the site itself, right?

452

: 00:24:29

And that, and again, going to the

analytics that can be gold, a gold

453

: 00:24:34

mine because you can track the searches

that were done in the analytics and

454

: 00:24:39

Google Analytics will do this, but

so will other good analytics tools.

455

: 00:24:43

So you can see what people

are actually looking for.

456

: 00:24:46

And that can be a real

educational gold mine because I.

457

: 00:24:52

It.

458

: 00:24:52

It tells you, for example, how people

think about your products and services.

459

: 00:24:57

So what words do they use to look

for what they're expecting to find?

460

: 00:25:01

And that may be different, like especially

with industries that have a ton of jargon.

461

: 00:25:05

If the people who are buying your f

your stuff are not familiar with your

462

: 00:25:10

jargon, your internal terms for things,

then you might be using words on your

463

: 00:25:17

website that they don't recognize.

464

: 00:25:20

And I, again, I've seen

this with technology type

465

: 00:25:22

manufacturing type companies.

466

: 00:25:25

So you wanna think about what

words do my visitors use to find

467

: 00:25:29

stuff that they're looking for?

468

: 00:25:31

And structure your content

around those words.

469

: 00:25:34

You can teach them your jargon

once you've got them but first

470

: 00:25:37

of all, you've got to get them.

471

: 00:25:39

It also tells you.

472

: 00:25:41

What kinds of things your visitors are

looking for that they clearly expect to

473

: 00:25:46

find at your site that you don't provide?

474

: 00:25:49

'cause that's great

product research, right?

475

: 00:25:52

What do people expect you to be

offering them that you're not offering?

476

: 00:25:56

And may and I've certainly worked

with clients where we've looked at

477

: 00:25:59

those kinds of things and we've come

up with new products or services

478

: 00:26:02

based on, hey, yeah, they're right.

479

: 00:26:05

We have that expertise.

480

: 00:26:06

We just never thought of offering

whatever it is they're looking for.

481

: 00:26:11

And so the site search can be an amazing

research tool and a lot of times you

482

: 00:26:15

know that little magnifying glass

that's right at the top of the page in

483

: 00:26:19

the nav bar, and as soon as somebody

scrolls down the page, it's gone.

484

: 00:26:24

And then they're not gonna think

that there's a search engine.

485

: 00:26:26

Same thing kind of thing

as the call to action.

486

: 00:26:30

If there's something on the site

that's really gonna help them and

487

: 00:26:33

help you, then you know, don't bury

it so that they can, they bury.

488

: 00:26:38

Few people will even know it's there.

489

: 00:26:42

Brett Deister: So yeah, for the jargon.

490

: 00:26:44

Even in marketing, like SEO search

engine optimization, like API KPIs,

491

: 00:26:49

like all this other and that's the

all basically digital marketing.

492

: 00:26:53

Jargon.

493

: 00:26:54

It's almost like your website needs

like a dictionary page just for all

494

: 00:26:58

your jargon so people understand, or

at least a hover thing where it's like

495

: 00:27:02

this is what this means for those.

496

: 00:27:05

'cause in pr if we're saying something

new, we have to describe it and then

497

: 00:27:09

afterwards we don't describe it anymore.

498

: 00:27:10

'cause we've already told you what it is.

499

: 00:27:12

So should they be thinking in those

terms for jargon specifically?

500

: 00:27:16

Because you are gonna

get customers that are.

501

: 00:27:18

That, know your jargon, but you're

also gonna get new customers that don't

502

: 00:27:21

know your jargon at the same time.

503

: 00:27:23

So let's say for example, you're

a B2B computer company, building

504

: 00:27:27

up computers, and you use CPUs,

GPUs, and all the other jargon.

505

: 00:27:31

Everybody's wait, what does

that what does that mean?

506

: 00:27:33

Like CPU is like the, it's a processor

and the GPU is the graphics card.

507

: 00:27:37

And people go, oh, okay.

508

: 00:27:39

I know what that means now.

509

: 00:27:40

So how do they help with

all that jargony stuff?

510

: 00:27:43

Because you can't get away from it.

511

: 00:27:45

'cause you're gonna, you're gonna,

if you know the industry well, you're

512

: 00:27:47

gonna, you're gonna use the jargon

because it helps you talk faster in some

513

: 00:27:52

ways, but also helps you like bridge

that gap between the experts as well.

514

: 00:27:57

So how do you.

515

: 00:27:58

How does a marketer bridge that

gap between the expert and the new

516

: 00:28:02

person that's just coming to your

website for the first time and

517

: 00:28:06

going, what the hell does that mean?

518

: 00:28:09

Phillipa Gamse: Yeah, and I first of

all, I glossary certainly used to be a

519

: 00:28:12

really good SEO tool 'cause it basically

just contains a load of keywords.

520

: 00:28:15

I I actually don't.

521

: 00:28:17

No, that's totally true at the moment.

522

: 00:28:19

But that's interesting because I've worked

with actually I've worked with computer

523

: 00:28:23

components, software component company,

for example, that was one of my clients.

524

: 00:28:27

And they would say things like,

look, don't worry about it,

525

: 00:28:29

because our buyers are techies.

526

: 00:28:33

They know the language,

they know the jargon.

527

: 00:28:35

We don't have to worry about this.

528

: 00:28:36

And I said, are you sure about that?

529

: 00:28:38

Because imagine that.

530

: 00:28:41

A buyer or the techie guy

says, okay, I want this.

531

: 00:28:45

And they go to the CFO

and they say, I want this.

532

: 00:28:49

And the CFO might say, okay, but how

do I know that this is a reputable

533

: 00:28:52

company before I write the check?

534

: 00:28:55

So they, or that department

might go to the website to do

535

: 00:29:00

due diligence on the company.

536

: 00:29:02

They don't care about the technical stuff.

537

: 00:29:03

They wanna know this is a real

company that we can depend on and

538

: 00:29:07

trust and we can send our money to.

539

: 00:29:09

And so at least.

540

: 00:29:12

The about Us page.

541

: 00:29:14

Every company, every B2B company

should have an about us page.

542

: 00:29:17

Who are we, what do we do?

543

: 00:29:18

Who are our principle people?

544

: 00:29:20

And that should be in English

or in, in other words, in your

545

: 00:29:23

vernacular without jargon.

546

: 00:29:25

And it's interesting again you can use

analytics to ask, answer a basic question

547

: 00:29:30

like how many people who are new to

my website go to our About us page?

548

: 00:29:34

'cause it's a lot.

549

: 00:29:35

If they don't know you, they're gonna

look there to find out who you are.

550

: 00:29:39

And in my humble opinion, that

should be a page that is not full

551

: 00:29:44

of jargon because that's where you

just wanna impress people, that

552

: 00:29:48

you are a real trustworthy entity.

553

: 00:29:53

Brett Deister: That makes, yeah, that

makes a lot of sense because as you.

554

: 00:29:57

I always said, you can't get away from

jargon, but you at least can have some

555

: 00:30:00

pages that are jargon free or jargon

less, or don't have as much jargon in it.

556

: 00:30:06

Or you explain the jargon within

the actual about page too,

557

: 00:30:10

Phillipa Gamse: but you

also have to assume.

558

: 00:30:12

That there will be visitors to your

website who are not industry experts,

559

: 00:30:17

who are there because, and bankers,

insurers, other types of people

560

: 00:30:22

that you interact with will come to

your site to do that due diligence.

561

: 00:30:26

I actually worked with a company once it

got refused an insurance policy because it

562

: 00:30:30

was something they said on their website.

563

: 00:30:32

But, and you have to be aware of that.

564

: 00:30:34

There are people that

are checking you out.

565

: 00:30:35

They're not customers, they're

not potential customers, but your

566

: 00:30:38

website is important in playing a

role in your relationship with them.

567

: 00:30:44

Brett Deister: And so what do you see

the future of B2B marketing going?

568

: 00:30:46

Do you see like more ai,

do you see more of the.

569

: 00:30:49

Traditional parts.

570

: 00:30:50

Going back to just like making sure

that you have a newsletter or that

571

: 00:30:56

you email is just as important as

all the other new technologies.

572

: 00:31:00

Like where do you see the B2B marketing,

like transitioning from in: 2024

573

: 00:31:04

I.

574

: 00:31:06

Phillipa Gamse: So I'm not a

futurist, but honestly like I said,

575

: 00:31:09

I've been doing this for a while.

576

: 00:31:11

I think the way we do stuff okay,

now we have AI or different tools,

577

: 00:31:16

different techniques for doing things.

578

: 00:31:19

The basics, the fundamentals

don't really change.

579

: 00:31:22

So as a business, in order to

sell stuff, you've got to prove,

580

: 00:31:28

you've gotta have social proof,

you've gotta have credibility.

581

: 00:31:30

You've got to appear to be focused

on quality being trustworthy.

582

: 00:31:37

Relationships, et cetera.

583

: 00:31:40

And how that's done might evolve but

that fundamental doesn't go away.

584

: 00:31:44

And I also, as I keep also coming back

to the fundamental of having a clear

585

: 00:31:49

marketing strategy with measurable

goals shouldn't go away either.

586

: 00:31:54

How, again, however you do that just

because there are new, bright, shiny

587

: 00:31:58

objects around to play with that shouldn't

negate the importance of having strategy.

588

: 00:32:05

Brett Deister: So where can people

find you online to learn more about

589

: 00:32:08

your expertise and just SEO in general?

590

: 00:32:12

Phillipa Gamse: I'm, as I said,

I'm more of an analytics and

591

: 00:32:14

strategy person than the SEO.

592

: 00:32:16

So you are welcome to look me up on

LinkedIn and I'd love to connect with

593

: 00:32:19

anybody that's watching the program.

594

: 00:32:22

And my website is websites win.

595

: 00:32:26

So websites@win.com and I do have

actually a, an ebook, which I'm about to

596

: 00:32:31

put on my website, but if you ping me,

I'll be happy to send it to you anyway.

597

: 00:32:35

Which is some real life stories of how

we've used analytics to come up with

598

: 00:32:41

an insight that we wouldn't have known

without that data that's allowed us

599

: 00:32:45

to significantly grow the business.

600

: 00:32:48

Brett Deister: Alright,

any final thoughts?

601

: 00:32:51

Phillipa Gamse: Thank you very much.

602

: 00:32:52

It's been fun.

603

: 00:32:53

And thank you for asking about

tea and coffee at the beginning.

604

: 00:32:56

That was fun.

605

: 00:32:57

And let me let me ask you what do

you think was the most important

606

: 00:33:00

message that we put out today?

607

: 00:33:03

Brett Deister: Most important message

was even if all the new technology

608

: 00:33:07

is there there's a few of 'em.

609

: 00:33:09

Basics is still king.

610

: 00:33:10

Like traditional marketing

will still never go away.

611

: 00:33:14

Just because you put jargon on

there doesn't mean that everybody's,

612

: 00:33:17

everybody understands your jargon.

613

: 00:33:19

You need to appeal to the new

customers, plus the old customers or the

614

: 00:33:23

experienced customers at the same time.

615

: 00:33:26

Phillipa Gamse: And keep thinking

about your strategy and keep thinking

616

: 00:33:28

about what you want people to do next.

617

: 00:33:31

Brett Deister: Yes.

618

: 00:33:32

Always look at the customer

journey on your website.

619

: 00:33:37

All right.

620

: 00:33:37

Thank you for joining Digital

Coffee Marketing Brew and sharing

621

: 00:33:40

your knowledge on analytics and

digital marketing and B2B marketing.

622

: 00:33:45

Phillipa Gamse: Great.

623

: 00:33:46

Thank you so much.

624

: 00:33:47

It's been great to be with you.

625

: 00:33:48

Brett Deister: And thank you as well.

626

: 00:33:50

Please subscribe to this

podcast with all your favorite

627

: 00:33:53

podcasting apps and user review.

628

: 00:33:55

You'll just help join us next week

as you talk to the great belt leader

629

: 00:33:58

in the PR and marketing industry.

630

: 00:34:01

Alright guys, stay safe,

understanding your analytics and

631

: 00:34:03

your SEO and your customer journey,

and see you next week later.