Episode 12

Email Marketing Insights with Andriy Boychuk: Enhancing Engagement and Deliverability

We're pouring over the insights of email marketing maestro Andriy Boychuk, founder of the email marketing agency Flowium. Andriy is here to demystify the art of email engagement in an era where privacy measures are shaking up the marketing landscape.

We'll grind into the do's and don'ts of cold emailing, with Andriy highlighting the nuances between effective B2B outreach and the pitfalls of growing an e-commerce list. Email architecture is also on our menu, serving up the best practices for subject lines, calls to action, and the ideal structure for optimal deliverability.

Hold on to your mugs as we take a swig of Andriy's expertise on the rhythm of email marketing, why owning your customer data trumps all other strategies, and how even the age-old, text-only email remains a potent brew in a marketer's toolkit.

And if that's not robust enough, we'll be filtering through Andriy's views on the future of email marketing, discussing how to adapt early to new privacy features like those from Apple and why click-through rates may just be your new best friend.

So, whether you’re sipping an espresso or a latte, it's time to perk up and tune in. Get ready for a jolt of wisdom that could only be served by Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew.

3 Fun Facts

1. Andriy Boychuk is the founder of Flowium, an email marketing agency, showing his deep involvement and expertise in the field.

2. Despite the advent of social media, Andriy still emphasizes email marketing as a crucial strategy for businesses, underscoring its resilience and effectiveness in the digital marketing landscape.

3. Andriy advises a unique approach to split testing by starting with two very different ideas, providing a fresh perspective on a common email marketing practice.

Timestamps:

00:00 Email marketing: still relevant in digital age?

04:14 Optimize website with opt-in forms for leads.

09:09 Ensure good deliverability, follow best email practices.

09:52 Create attractive subject lines for engaging emails.

15:31 Use hooks to spark curiosity and engagement.

19:06 The importance of timing in brand outreach.

20:04 Monday to Friday best for sending emails.

26:22 Email marketing will be more controlled and challenging. Collecting data early is crucial due to privacy changes.

27:44 App install/permission doesn't impact email tracking.

💬 Want to get involved? Leave us a comment, give us a 'like,' and follow us for more insights. Join our Locals for lively discussions, and if you've got questions, email us at bdeister@digitalcafe.media!

👕 Check out our mech: www.digitalcafe.store


🌟 Review the Podcast if you loved this episode and share it with fellow marketers who could benefit from a treasure trove of podcasting wisdom. Tune in to "Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew" and let's brew up some success together!

Transcript
Brett Deister:

Mm, that's good.

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And welcome to a new episode of

a Digital Coffee Marketing Brew,

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and I am your host, Brett Deister.

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And with me, I have.

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Andre with me, and he is an

accomplished entrepreneur and marketing

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specialist with years of experience.

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And we're gonna be mostly talking

about, actually, we're all gonna be

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talking about is email marketing.

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Because even though that is a

dinosaur, as I like to call it,

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dinosaur type of marketing, it's

still very valuable in today's market.

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But welcome to the show.

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Thank

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Andriy Boychuk: you.

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Thank you Brett, for

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Brett Deister: having me here.

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Mm.

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And the first question is, all my guests

is, are you a coffee or tea drinker?

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Coffee.

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Coffee.

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Andriy Boychuk: That's like I,

unfortunately, I have too much coffee

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and I probably need to scale it down.

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Brett Deister: Gotcha.

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Is it like, what?

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Is like too much coffee in your

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Andriy Boychuk: world?

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I.

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For me, it's like the line is five

cups a day, but sometimes I have a

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little bit more, so it's not healthy.

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My heart rate goes through the

roof, but it's not about because I

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do love coffee, don't get me wrong.

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But now it's more like as a dish and

because I'm sleepy or I need more energy.

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I

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Brett Deister: understand that I got

a little puppy in training right now

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and I'm always eating that energy

right now, but I gave a brief summary

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of your expertise, but can you give

us a little, give our listeners a

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little bit more about what you do.

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Andriy Boychuk: Sure.

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My name's Andre Bouk and I'm the founder

of email marketing agency called flavian.

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We serve mostly e-commerce brands.

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We started back in 2017 and

this is k kinda our niche.

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We specialize in email marketing,

also known as a retention marketing

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channel, one of the most popular

retention marketing channels.

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And yeah, so we full service.

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So we help from starting, from

deliverability and ending with kind

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of scheduling creating strategy, copy

design and scheduling those campaigns

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or automations for our clients.

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Brett Deister: Gotcha.

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So, like I said before, email, marketing's

kinda like the dinosaur of the digital

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age because email's been around for,

I wanna say like, almost like two

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decades, or at least two decades.

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And it's, and.

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How can, what, what, what should you

tell people about email marketing?

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Is it still relevant today?

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And is this a good avenue for like

content marketing at the same time?

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So like what is email marketing?

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Is it still relevant today for

marketers as they're trying to

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navigate everything that's going

on in the digital marketing world?

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Andriy Boychuk: Sure.

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I mean, the, the quick answer,

yes, it's still relevant relevant

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and I mean, if it's not, I, I

would not have the business.

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And now we have like driving successful

business and each year we getting more and

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more clients who wants to implement the

right email marketing in terms of content.

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It's very interesting question

because I never thought about that.

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But if you produce some kind of content,

email marketing is kind of amplify.

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It's a channel to amplify it, so

it's easier to create email marketing

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campaigns, email marketing automations

if you create some kind of content,

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for example, for you if you like.

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Right now, we are recording this podcast.

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Yes, you will probably post on different

social media, but if you have a list,

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even if there's only five people

on that list, you are not limited.

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To send them this podcast recording and

tell them to watch it, to listen it.

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And nobody limits you.

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Like there's no algorithm or extremely

minimal algorithm, which exists to limit

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Brett Deister: your reach.

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Got you.

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And some, what are some of your best

tips and tricks for small businesses

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that just are starting out or even

marketers themselves that are just

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starting out to build their list?

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Because.

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I know not everybody has a list,

but you gotta start somewhere.

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Andriy Boychuk: I mean, first of all,

you need to collect that list somehow.

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I mean, the easiest if you have

a, if you have a website I.

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Optimize your website to add few

options, how people can opt in.

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So it can be a footer, it can be popup

a message, it can be slide in form,

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sorry, popup form, slide in form.

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Those are just the ways but

what do you put on those forms?

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It's opt.

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To your business, if you some

in infomercial space, maybe

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some kind of cheat sheet some

ebook, some video, some course.

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If you are in e-commerce, it can be

discount free, gift free shipping.

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So it depends on the business.

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So it's probably the, if you

don't have that it's, this

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is kind of step number one.

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This is the basic.

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I see so many brands that you don't

have a signup form in their footer,

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and it upsets me because I do want to

sign up for them to state up, up to

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date what's going on with this brand.

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Or I want that them to send me,

offer to sell me something, but

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they don't have a signup form.

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But if you don't have a website.

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Yet, maybe you're just starting

your business or some kind of theory

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that you want to start the business.

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There's other tools like link Tree or

something like very low cost where you

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can add the signup form in that like

what's called mi, like micro lending

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pages where people can kind of sign

up and be added to your newsletter.

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Brett Deister: Mm-Hmm.

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And.

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Should people or is it wise

to purchase email list?

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'cause I know there's a lot of companies

out there that are like, Hey, we can

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give you like thousands of people.

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So no, don't do that whatsoever.

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Just like void.

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Andriy Boychuk: So there's two PI mean

there's, I mean there's one medium

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is called, I mean, email but there's.

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Called emailing approach,

and it's email marketing.

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And the, those are two separate

cha channel called Emailing.

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It's responsible for awareness, you

know, like, like different marketing

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stages like awareness, retention,

conversion, blah, blah, blah.

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Conversion, reten retention, so called

email is responsible for awareness.

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People know nothing about you.

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You send them email, they're

like, oh, it sounds interesting.

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Or, or, oh, it's a spam.

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Let me mark it as a spam.

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Email.

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Marketing.

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It's a retention.

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So somebody knows about you from

social media, from Facebook ads,

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from they met you in a person.

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They know about you.

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They visited your website, they

signed up for you for your emails.

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So it's email marketing.

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Should you purchase list

to do email marketing?

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A hundred percent.

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No, it's a bit taboo.

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You will hurt yourself.

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You will hurt your deliverability,

and it would be, even if it's

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a short term positive return on

investment long term, trust me,

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you will just demonstr your domain.

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However, I don't want to, like we do

call, email, call outreach for ourselves.

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We have different campaigns and

we have outreach specialists,

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but we are in B2B space.

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When we sign a client, the lifetime

value of the clients can be like

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50,000, a hundred thousand dollars.

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So it's worth to us to do this, but

we don't do it through tools like

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MailChimp, because MailChimp is,

for example, email marketing tool

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cloud, your active campaign con kit.

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Those are email marketing

tools for call, email.

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You need to use different set of tools.

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You need different set of talent.

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You need a different set of

like training and learning.

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So.

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Just don't, sometimes I see that

people are confusing those to us.

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Oh, it's a email.

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What's the difference?

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You know, it's just send them code emails.

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Yeah, you

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Brett Deister: did.

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And so like the Bridging the gap to

build your email list is to cold email.

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And so are there any like best

ways of actually doing that?

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Because I would not.

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Andriy Boychuk: I would

not recommend that.

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Like to call email to grow your list.

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You called email to kind of

to get to the client again,

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depends what kind of business.

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If you are e-commerce, I don't

recommend called email approach

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whatsoever, but for let's say B2B

called outreach to to create awareness.

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So they know about you, but your

goal would be probably to jump

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with them on a call, not to sign

them up for your newsletter.

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Brett Deister: Got you.

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And as we talk about email

newsletters, is there like a flow

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to like putting the content in?

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Is there like a header,

like a block of text?

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Is there a way of like making it

visually good so people will actually

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read most, if not all of your email,

because I'm pretty sure we all want

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everybody to read every single one,

but sometimes it never happens.

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Andriy Boychuk: So the goal I

mean, so there's few foundational

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blocks and let me start from the

beginning 'cause it'll be easier.

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So first of all, it's extremely important

to take care of your deliverability,

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meaning that email that you are sending

out, getting to people's inbox, not.

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Yeah, you can send out as many

emails as you want, but if it

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goes to spam, nobody sees them.

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Not like, like do, do you

check your spam folder?

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Do you like go through those emails?

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Probably not.

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So the deliverability is.

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Like a milestone.

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Number one, like to make sure

you have good deliverability.

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If you're just starting out just follow

the best practices and you should be good.

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Next step is subject line.

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Make sure that you have

attractive subject line.

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And right now there's ton of content

about hooks mostly hooks about

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social media polls, but the same

logic applies for subject lines.

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Make sure to hook them to.

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The, the goal of the subject line,

not to tell what's in email, but get

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them, be curious what's the email?

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So they are opening that email.

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And in terms of email structure if we

talking about the designed email, not

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the text base, but designed email, like

branded first thing is a logo sorry.

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The, the, the entire structure of

email should be kind of upside down.

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Pyramid.

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So it like, you want them

to scroll, scroll down.

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So the major mistake I see people

treat email as a website and

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they put the menu bar on the top.

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It's a bad idea and it's

a big taboo because you.

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Each button, it's a call to action.

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And per email, rule of thumb, you

want to have one call to action

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and you want people to scroll

to that call, call to action.

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So you have a logo, then

you have a here image.

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And the here image can have some kind

of title title text on top of it.

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Then you have a short or long body.

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It's up to you.

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It depends what you're sending.

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And then there's call to action.

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So this is gonna vary.

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Basic, but this structure work works.

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The

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Brett Deister: basin that we followed.

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Yeah.

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So it's like the opposite of pr.

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'cause PR is like an is is like a pyramid.

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You want, you wanna do inverted

pyramid, so you don't want the

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most important thing on top.

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You want them to scroll down to

the most important thing on top.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Gotcha.

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And then, so LinkedIn has their

own technical email newsletters.

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Is it wise to do that or should

you control it a little bit more

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and have your own type of a thing?

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Andriy Boychuk: You don't own the,

the customer data on LinkedIn.

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I'm not against LinkedIn newsletter

because right now it has higher I

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mean like decent reach, but don't

treat it as a your email list.

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It's a newsletter.

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It's a newsletter, but it's not you don't

own the, the subscriber's email name.

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You don't, you don't own that data.

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And we prefer, we prefer

that as a business.

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It's important for you to own the

data because if LinkedIn, for some

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reason, even by mistake, shuts you

down, your business can go down pretty

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Brett Deister: quick.

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Got so sh should it be like almost

like a hybrid version, like almost a

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bridge version of your email newsletter,

of your actual one and saying, Hey,

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if you want, want more for your call

to action, go to our actual email

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list and send up for our email list.

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Could it be like something

like that where you use

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Andriy Boychuk: LinkedIn, you can.

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You, you can, I mean, look, if you,

you're a business owner, you want to have

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as many awareness channel as possible.

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So yes, do whatever it takes to, to

get most attention but your ultimate

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goal for people to go to your website

and sign up for your email list.

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Brett Deister: What's some good

tips to get the highest open rates?

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Because, I mean, obviously we want the

most open rates possible because if

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you don't open it, then you'll never

go and see the call to action, and then

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it's pointless to actually have a email

newsletter or you have to revamp it.

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So what's the best way of getting

the most open rates you can?

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Sure.

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Andriy Boychuk: So I would stro

strongly recommend if you like,

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want to take this seriously to

investigate the, your personal inbox.

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Like let's say open the

inbox and just check all the

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subject line that you can see.

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Then check the same thing on the mobile.

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And you even can check

on different devices.

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For example, on I, I use iPhone, so

I have Apple mail and I have Gmail.

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Because things look different

on different platforms and see

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what, catches your attention and

think about logically, like why.

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So an example, right now I'm

volunteering for Ukrainian charity.

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And I do, I provide them email

marketing services pro bono.

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And I.

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The hypothesis I came up with to include

Ukrainian flag emoji at the beginning.

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Again, emo I, I'm not saying that

emoji works for all the brands, but

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if there's something that I mean,

right, because of the war that because

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of the war, probably Ukrainian flag,

everybody knows Ukrainian flag now.

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So, and it's so distinctive in the email

box without even worse, people know.

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What is that email about?

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And it's now, it's up to them

if they want to open or not.

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I also found that some, some some

brands, they brand their subject line.

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So some brands include specific

either emoji or specific key word.

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And when you see that you like, oh, this

is like, this is from X, Y, and Z brand.

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This is.

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A great way to do it, but it's

sometimes it takes time and takes

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training to, to train your audience.

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And as I said before,

hooks make people curious.

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Don't put like, oh, 10% off only today.

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Our last sale.

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Like, I mean, you are revealing what

you will provide in the email and

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sometimes feel like, ah, I don't care.

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Or if you say something like, did

some, we tested one subject line

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for a abandon card, and the subject

line was, did something go wrong?

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And personally, like, you know, I.

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It's a question and like,

oh, did I like what happened?

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And we had the highest open rate for

that spec, for that specific brand,

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for that specific email purpose

to recover the abandoned card.

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And sometimes people were replying

saying like, oh, I, I, I didn't order,

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or, you know, like it was, but it was a.

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Something that sparked

curiosity in people open.

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So the biggest thing I would recommend

to learn how to use hooks hooks to hook

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person to open, to get them curious.

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And I'm not the best person to

kind of teach you about hooks, but

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there's a lot of content on YouTube.

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I mean check out the Mr.

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Be the most famous YouTuber, and check

even his thumbnails check his title.

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It.

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I tr trust me you would be curious

what he's, what he's talking about.

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Like, you need to click

to find out the answer.

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Brett Deister: Gotcha.

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So is it wise to do like ab testing

if you can, on your subject lines?

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On, on the subject lines for the emails

so you can, like, find the best one.

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And also is it, does it matter like what

time of day you also send the email out?

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Because I mean, if you send it

at like 3:00 AM in the morning,

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nobody's gonna look at it for.

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For several hours.

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But you also have to understand

like time zone differences.

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So are those two like also play a

factor in getting better open rates?

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Andriy Boychuk: In terms of, so yes,

you do need to split tests and we,

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I mean we big on split testing, but

if you have a very low bandwidth,

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let's say you have only thousand.

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Email subscribers and you don't have

much time to do email marketing.

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You have other things in the business

like, don't bother about split testing.

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I know some people will probably

hate me for saying this, but listen,

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you have other things in like more

important things in your business to do.

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So don't stress about it.

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Like just send those emails.

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This is the most important thing.

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But split testing in general, yes, it.

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They are important and if you start

with a split testing, we strongly

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recommend to go with two crazy ideas,

like two, like two different ideas.

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Don't split test one keyword, don't

split test comma or exclamation points.

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Do something like crazy different.

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And see what like, I mean, rela relevant

to your audience and see to which in

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which direction your audience like go

and go to and try to do the same split

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test few more times so it's not a glitch.

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You can kind of prove your hypothesis.

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So this is about split testing

about the time and the day.

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It all depends on the industry.

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So for, here's an example, if you

sell like, closing for ladies,

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like the Woman's Woman's brand.

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We found that Sunday, Sunday

mornings is the best time for them.

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Why?

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I didn't know that.

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But then I found out, I spoke with

few few, like avatar, like few, few

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personas for this specific brand.

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And they say, they said that the.

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Typical routine.

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And again, I'm very generalizing and it's,

this is what's for this specific brand.

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They like to wake up in Sunday morning,

have a cup of coffee on their tablet

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to browse different products, you

know, and will it work for everybody?

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Like if you own the infomercial

business and you are sending about

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funnel something on Sunday morning,

probably you will have terrible results.

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If you're in B2B.

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Saturday, Sunday, probably the

worst time to send that email.

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So it all depends on the business,

but yes, it does play the role.

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But there's in the past people are

saying like, Tuesday and Thursdays

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are the best days, or Tuesday

through Thursday are the best days.

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Come on.

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I mean, everybody using this

now, everybody's mailbox is

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overloaded on those days.

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So now I would say Monday and

Friday is the best day because

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nobody send emails on those days.

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So you have to test and you.

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You have to see yourself.

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So for the same company that for

this volunteering for charity we were

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sending typically on Thursdays, and I

did the test on last Saturday, and our

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open rate dropped from 50 55% to 35%.

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So like I can assume that Sunday

is not the best time to, Saturday

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is not the best time to send it.

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:

Brett Deister: Got you.

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:

And then talking about the frequency, like

where should brands actually figure it?

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It'd be like once a week,

once a month, every day.

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Yearly, bi-yearly.

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:

Like what's the, is I, obviously

it's gonna probably depend by

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industry, but what's usually

the best frequency of emails?

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Andriy Boychuk: The best one once a week.

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It's, it's, it's the best

frequency in the past.

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I was saying if you have very.

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We, you don't have bandwidth due

once a month, but nowadays with

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:

overload of information, social

media things, one month is like.

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It's a lot.

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So you need to stay on top

of your customer's mind.

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So once a week, it can be

basic text-based email.

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We recently had Neil Patel on our

podcast and we were asking about

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his newsletter, and he asked.

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Extremely simple email.

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It's like one paragraph, one link

text base, nothing formatted.

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It's probably taking him like

maximum 30 minutes to do, I

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:

would say even 10 minutes to do.

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:

So you don't have to overthinking.

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Just make sure, be consistent.

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Try to send it the same day each week.

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:

It trains not only your subscribers,

but also it ta ta trains inboxes

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:

that you are sending that email

on specific date and time.

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:

Brett Deister: So, I mean, it's good

to know for like small businesses

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and everybody else, and maybe

like small team of marketers, I.

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:

That you don't have to have this like

really long, elegant email that's like

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:

got this like crazy like coding behind it.

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:

You can just do like a text-based and

have your call to action for them to

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just go over to your website basically.

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But

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:

Andriy Boychuk: it's correct, but

it's not only for small brands.

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:

We spoke recently with one brand.

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Their revenue between, it varies,

but like at least 150 million a year.

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:

And they do from every 10 emails,

they send two text-based emails.

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:

So they, this is their mix.

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:

So it's not only about your business size.

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:

I said I, I recommend it for

small business because I know

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:

you are probably yourself and you

may might have your assistant.

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:

You just don't have bandwidth

to design beautiful emails.

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:

But I don't want that beautiful

email, that perfectionism to stop

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:

you without from taking the action.

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Brett Deister: Gotcha.

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:

And then is there any like specific

email tool that you like to use, like

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MailChimp, AWeber, constant Contact.

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:

Is there anyone specific that

you like more than other ones?

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:

Andriy Boychuk: Sure.

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:

I'll answer the question, but

first I'll ask you what, who,

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:

who are your listeners are?

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:

Mostly

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Brett Deister: listeners are, I mean,

mostly it's like, it's still like PR and

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:

marketing people in the mix because I do

have a degree in actual public relations,

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:

so I under, I understand it and so for

right now it's, I'm still growing this,

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:

so I do have a smaller audience because

I just started this year actually, and

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:

I do it once a month, so it's a smaller

one, but it's usually about like.

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:

People in the PR industry, but they're

in like the 25 to 45 age bracket.

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:

Andriy Boychuk: I see.

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:

So for pr, I would I mean that's

what I need that information

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:

to, to recommend it to.

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:

So for somebody like PR or marketing

agencies, probably something like Convert

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kit, active campaign I mean HubSpot,

but HubSpot is like too, too pricey.

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:

Something more.

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:

Kind of B2B thing.

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:

If they are in e-commerce space

Claudio is the best of the best.

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:

MailChimp, it's, you know, like in

the past, and maybe it's still now

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:

MailChimp, it was a Goldstone standard.

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:

If you start with email marketing,

you sign up for MailChimp

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:

because it was always free.

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:

But now different tools like

ConvertKit they also have a.

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:

Free plan up to certain point

and just convert it from a user.

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:

It's more user friendly and

easier to set it, set it up.

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:

But if you need some, some more

complex solution, I probably would

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:

recommend Active Campaign because it

includes not only email marketing,

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:

but different like robust automation.

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:

Marketing automation

tools you, you can use.

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:

But if you're talking about

something free it's probably

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:

either Convert Kit or MailChimp.

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:

Brett Deister: Got you.

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:

And from your perspective,

what does the future of email

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:

marketing actually look like?

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:

Do do you mean the how?

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:

How's it gonna be like the future?

448

:

Yeah.

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:

How's it gonna be like

the next five years?

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:

Oh,

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:

Andriy Boychuk: I, I see future.

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:

I think there it's already a very

competitive space and there's more and

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:

more competition, so everybody like

fighting for the eyeballs on the inbox.

454

:

So last year, sorry, two years,

one or two years ago, the apple

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:

released the new privacy thing.

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:

So right now the open rate is not,

if they are on iOS devices open,

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:

we are not able to track open rate.

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:

Now they're releasing the new features.

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:

So I think it will be more kind of

controlled and it would be harder to get

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:

the statistics of your email marketing.

461

:

It would be harder to know

if they're opening or not.

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:

So our jobs as email marketers

would be harder, but it.

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:

That's why it's important to start

as soon, as soon as possible to,

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:

for you to learn how it works

and start to collect the data.

465

:

So right now that like the privacy thing

affect the Facebook, the other things,

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:

that's why the first party data where

you can collect on your signup form.

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:

Like who you, who you like,

any information you want.

468

:

Like are they out at all?

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:

Male or female, they what kind,

what the money is their birthday.

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:

So you are able to collect on your

form and you do own this information.

471

:

Brett Deister: Gotcha.

472

:

I mean, that, that is, that

is a good thing to talk about.

473

:

The Apple do not track thing

that they actually implemented.

474

:

I don't know if Android's going to

eventually do it, I think, but they

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:

haven't actually really done it yet, so.

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:

Does that, how do you get around that

hurdle of getting people to actually

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:

allow for tracking so you can actually

give them the best, I guess, the best

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:

email or the best products for them?

479

:

Andriy Boychuk: So that feature, when

you install the app or like open the

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:

app for first time where it says allow,

do not allow, it does not affect.

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:

Emails.

482

:

So it's not for email site of

iOS, but iOS release it globally.

483

:

So it doesn't matter what you click,

if you send email to, to a device.

484

:

And where they read their email is

iOS, they use, let's say, apple Mail.

485

:

By default, the sander doesn't see

if you open, oh, sorry, by default.

486

:

All emails considered open

because they go into proxy.

487

:

And then it depends if person opens it

or not, but in your system, let's say

488

:

in MailChimp, it shows like open, so

your open rate is inflated all the time.

489

:

So some tools we use Clavio, we are

lead master cl partner and in Clavio

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:

they have a future exclude iOS devices.

491

:

So basically you are have better

understanding of the Azure list.

492

:

What the open rate, but

you don't, you are blind.

493

:

But, but now it's extremely important to

track not the open rate, but track the

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:

click rate engagement with your email.

495

:

Brett Deister: So yeah, so, so the future

will be like moving from open rates to

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:

CT or click through rates or for that.

497

:

Okay.

498

:

And then where can people find

you online for more information

499

:

about email marketing and you?

500

:

Andriy Boychuk: Sure.

501

:

So our website, it's

flo F-L-O-W-I-U m.com.

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:

Or you can, I'm very active on LinkedIn.

503

:

So just my first Andre and last name Chu.

504

:

Yeah, you just type in

and you'll find me there.

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:

I'm very active, posting a lot

and trying to engage with people.

506

:

And any

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:

Brett Deister: final

thoughts for listeners?

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:

Andriy Boychuk: No matter what you think

about email marketing or email marketing

509

:

channel, like you like it or you don't

like it, it's not, unfortunately,

510

:

it's not what you think about it.

511

:

And if you like it or don't, it's

important that it works and it

512

:

will bring you more clients or

potential clients, so I strongly

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:

recommend for you to implement it.

514

:

All

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:

Brett Deister: right, thank you Andre for

joining Digital Coffee Marketing Brew, and

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:

sharing your knowledge on email marketing.

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:

Andriy Boychuk: Sure.

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:

Thank you for having me,

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:

Brett Deister: and thank you.

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:

And thank you for listening to

Digital Copy Marketing Brew.

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:

As always, we subscribe to this podcast

on all your favorite podcasting apps.

522

:

I'm gonna hit the subscribe button

on YouTube and see you next month

523

:

as we talk to another great thought

leader in the PR marketing industry.

524

:

All right, guys.

525

:

Stay safe.

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:

Understand your email marketing

list, email marketing, and

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:

see you next month later.

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