Episode 20
Navigating New Marketing Trends: AI, Email Lists, and Content with Kendra Corman
Welcome back to Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew, I'm your host Brett Deister, and today we have Kendra Corman with us to spill the beans on the evolving world of email marketing in the AI age. In this packed episode, Kendra will debunk the myths around email open rates in light of iOS's privacy updates and guide us on measuring true engagement with clicks and replies.
We'll grind down the best practices for email calls to action, the secret of talking to one person for impact, and the power of AB testing with a touch of AI to perfect those subject lines. Our discussion steers through the crowded inboxes and tells you why fewer choices can mean more action from your readers.
Furthermore, from the comforts of Constant Contact to the editing ease provided by Descript and Riverside, get ready to discover how AI is revolutionizing content creation and what that means for our sacred email lists. We'll also tap into the challenges of AI transcription, the growing importance of video content, and LinkedIn's new newsletter features.
And if you're wondering whether email marketing still reigns supreme in the social media era, Kendra and I have some insights that might just reaffirm your faith in the good old electronic mail. So fill up your mug, and let's brew some digital strategy with Kendra Corman on Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew.
3 Fun Facts
1. Kendra Corman utilizes AI for brainstorming ideas, topic suggestions, and theme creation for her podcast episodes.
2. Kendra produces two types of podcast episodes weekly: one with interviews and another featuring solo marketing tips.
3. Both Kendra Corman and Brett Deister leverage AI tools such as Descript, Riverside, and DaVinci Resolve to aid in podcast and video editing.
Timestamps:
00:10 AI dominates content marketing, both beneficially and excessively.
03:30 Generative AI like an intern with potential.
07:57 Podcast features themed episodes and marketing tips.
11:24 Editing helps minimize filler words to improve authenticity.
13:30 Effective social media strategy drives email growth.
18:36 Recommend offering discounts to attract customers online.
20:58 Value is key, exchange with email.
24:34 Private equity acquisition boosted Constant Contact's capabilities.
27:10 Monitor replies, list growth, and engagement metrics.
32:09 Write email content targeted at specific client.
35:53 Unique, value-added content is key in marketing.
37:33 Encouraging listeners to subscribe and stay tuned.
💬 Want to get involved? Leave us a comment, give us a 'like,' and follow us for more insights. Join our Locals for lively discussions, and if you've got questions, email us at bdeister@digitalcafe.media!
👕 Check out our merch: www.digitalcafe.store
🌟 Review the Podcast if you loved this episode and share it with fellow marketers who could benefit from a treasure trove of podcasting wisdom. Tune in to "Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew" and let's brew up some success together!
Transcript
Mm, that's good.
2
:And welcome to a new episode of
Digital Coffee Marketing Brew.
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:I'm your host, Brett Deister, and
this week we're gonna be talking
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:about content marketing email list.
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:Yes.
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:Email lists and email marketing.
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:The older side of the digital marketing.
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:Realm besides S-E-O-S-E-O is pretty
old too, but I'm excited with
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:me because I have Kendra with me
and she is a small business and
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:sold entrepreneur for marketing.
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:She's done everything between
Chrysler, the Jeep Advertising Manager,
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:she's also done B2B businesses.
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:She has a MBA from Michigan State, so
she's glad to have her on the show.
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:So I'm the show Kendra.
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:Kendra Corman: Thank you
so much for having me.
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:I'm super excited to be here and
I love talking about the older
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:side of marketing 'cause it still
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:Brett Deister: works.
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:It does work very well.
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:But the first question I all my guests
is, are you a coffee or tea drinker?
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:Kendra Corman: Tea I.
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:Brett Deister: Tea.
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:Any specific, any tea and
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:Kendra Corman: diet?
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:Coke.
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:Ah,
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:Brett Deister: any specific teas, like
green tea, black tea, or does it matter?
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:Kendra Corman: Green tea with
pomegranate is my favorite.
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:Brett Deister: All right.
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:And I gave a brief
summary of your expertise.
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:Can you give our listeners a
little bit more about what you do?
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:Kendra Corman: Yeah, so I've got
more than 15 years of experience
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:in marketing and advertising.
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:Right now I focus mostly with
small businesses and solopreneurs
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:and nonprofits, trying to help
them access high level quality
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:marketing expertise, advice, and
implementation at an affordable price.
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:But I've done things like, I learned
to drive a Viper on the Rolex 24
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:course at Daytona to things like
that were really fun, like insurance.
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:No
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:Brett Deister: fun times with insurance.
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:Kendra Corman: It was a lot more
interesting than than people think.
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:So that was always good.
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:Brett Deister: That's fair.
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:But in the landscape of content
marketing, it's evolved.
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:So what are the current trends
that we're seeing right now?
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:Kendra Corman: So the biggest trend
in content marketing right now is ai.
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:AI is dominating content
marketing for good or for bad.
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:I am a huge fan of ai.
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:I love embracing it, but
AI is becoming a tool.
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:I think it's becoming a little bit
overused now by a lot of people.
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:They're taking the easy way out and
they're not reviewing their content.
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:They're not.
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:Adding in the expertise, that's them.
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:Which is cool for people like you and
me who are adding in our expertise,
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:are adding unique content without the
a hundred percent generated AI content.
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:And therefore we're able to differentiate
ourselves easier in the marketplace.
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:But content marketing, AI is
made it so that it is so easy.
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:People are just doing it.
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:Brett Deister: Yeah, I think a lot of
'em are just using chat GBT, writing it
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:down and then just copying, pasting it.
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:'cause it's, they do, they
allow you to do it so easily.
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:Kendra Corman: They do.
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:They do.
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:And the thing is that it does have a
lot of great ideas and suggestions.
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:I love using chat GPTA
little bit as a therapist.
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:So I'll write something,
especially like a mean email, and
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:then I'll say, make this nicer.
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:And it does, and then I still feel
unburdened because I gave it my thoughts.
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:But it's, it does have some ideas.
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:It might help you brainstorm.
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:The best example that I've heard.
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:When referring to chat, GPT and
other similar ai, generative AI
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:tools is, you wanna think about it
as an intern with unlimited hours.
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:You are not gonna copy and paste
what an intern gives you, right?
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:You're gonna review it, you're
gonna give it really good
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:direction and specific direction.
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:You're going to educate it about
your experience and your side of
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:what you're asking them to do, right?
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:And because of that, when you
think about it as an intern, and
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:I think it really gives you those
guidelines or guideposts on how to
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:really leverage it in the right way.
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:Brett Deister: Yeah, I mean if you
think of an intern, a lot of times
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:you give this, you give an intern this
stuff you don't want to do, but you
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:still wanna look over what they do,
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:Kendra Corman: correct.
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:100%.
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:And they have unlimited hours, which
makes everything happen a lot quicker.
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:But again, you still have to
be involved in that process.
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:But AI is the biggest trend right
now, I think in content marketing.
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:Brett Deister: Yeah, I I think what,
six months ago it was, or before AI
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:took off, it was short form video
and now it's just AI in general.
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:Kendra Corman: Yeah.
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:Yep, a hundred percent.
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:And AI is helping people with short
form video and things like that,
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:which is making more of that too.
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:Brett Deister: How do you do you.
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:Can you create good storytelling
with the help of chat GPT or
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:Bard if some people use Bard?
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:Kendra Corman: Yeah.
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:And I and claude.ai is another one
that I like is another chat bot.
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:But I would say yes, you can create
good storytelling, but it's like any
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:other system, garbage in, garbage out.
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:You wanna give it the right
information and I actually had.
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:Chat, GPT helping me
write my email newsletter.
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:Yesterday, I basically
wrote my email newsletter.
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:I gave it all of the ideas,
everything that I wanna cover,
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:and then just had it rewrite.
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:So I just didn't have
to think quite as hard.
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:And then I was able to just edit it,
but I was able to do a brain dump.
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:It organized my thoughts for me
and put it together so that I
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:could edit it before I send it out.
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:It's a huge, it's a huge time
saver when used appropriately,
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:Brett Deister: and it
could also edit things.
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:So let's say a PR person
writes a press release.
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:You could look it over for you and
maybe give you suggestions as well.
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:Kendra Corman: Oh, I love
using it for suggestions.
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:I love using it for suggestions.
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:And if you're writing like a blog
post and you want to optimize it
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:for a certain keyword term, it'll
give you suggestions for that too.
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:I remember I had it analyze a
client's webpage for a specific
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:event because they wanted to come
up and search for certain term.
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:The term wasn't in there.
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:At all when, because they decided,
Hey, we need to come up for this.
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:And it's okay, we'll make edits.
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:I quickly loaded it in, had chat GPT, look
at it and give me a bunch of suggestions.
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:Some of the suggestions were
good, some of them not so good.
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:But I went ahead and made those
suggestions that were actually good
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:ones and they started coming up in
search, which was a pretty cool.
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:Change that didn't take a ton of time or
effort on my part because they gave me
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:suggestions as to how it needed to flow.
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:Brett Deister: And E, even with
that, does it help for marketers to
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:maybe create podcasts or be a guest
on podcast or create the video?
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:Because those are the things that
marketers now have to look at
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:because podcasting exploded during
the pandemic Video exploded during
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:the pandemic, does this help?
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:Just optimize it more for them so they
don't have to think or do a brain dump and
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:try to figure out their own brain dumps.
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:Kendra Corman: Yeah, so I
like brainstorming with ai.
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:I think that there's so much that it
brings to the table when I'm trying
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:to think through certain things and
it comes up with some great ideas.
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:Some, I'm like, yeah, that's not
happening, but it'll be like,
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:interview this, and it's no.
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:But it does give me some
really good suggestions for
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:topics, for a topic outline.
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:I know what themes I wanna create
around different months for my podcast.
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:And so moving into 2024 I've created
different themes for each month.
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:I launched two episodes a week, one
that's an interview podcast, and one
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:that is a solo show where it's usually
15 minutes or less, usually five to seven
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:minutes, where I cover a marketing tip
of some sort, and I'm trying to match
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:those up so that there's some more.
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:It's more seamless for my listeners,
and I think that there's a lot that it
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:has to offer in terms of helping you
brainstorm the ideas and the themes
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:and the rationale behind the themes.
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:It'll look over your website, know
what you're offering, and then it will
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:help you theme your podcast for it.
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:And come up with suggestions for episodes.
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:It can help give you an outline
for your episodes, but I find.
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:You still need to add
that piece of you in it.
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:You can't just take AI generated content.
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:For editing my podcast, I love the
script Riverside, they are both AI tools.
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:They do the whole transcript.
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:They'll do it so that I have
like story shaped videos with
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:my guests and things like that.
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:So it's just, it makes life so
much easier and just gives you.
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:So much opportunity to do things that you
never would've been able to do before ai.
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:Brett Deister: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Podcasting itself would take hours.
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:'cause you would have to figure out,
write a description for it, figure
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:out all the timestamps, write the
timestamps, and then add the filler
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:to whatever you had the filler to.
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:And then for video, I'm more on the.
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:Still on the I do edit all my
videos through DaVinci Resolve, but
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:DaVinci Resolve also adds with the
studio version, an AI transcript.
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:So we'll do, so I have four different AI
transcriptions, so if one it goes awry,
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:I have at least another backup for it.
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:Kendra Corman: Oh my gosh,
that is so funny because.
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:That is so true.
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:I was doing two different transcript.
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:I was doing two of the systems
that I use do transcripts.
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:One of them spelled the
person's name, correct.
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:One of them didn't and so I took
the one that spelled it correctly.
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:Brett Deister: No, it never
spells my last name correctly.
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:I always have to correct it.
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:No, so are we gonna see that more?
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:We're gonna see just like more AI
help with editing because I feel
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:like that does help quite a bit.
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:I use the script if I wanna change
words because it will allow me to.
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:Make it sound more natural.
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:If I just cut a word and it sounds weird.
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:It sounds like the natural like flow
of your tone is off, so are we gonna
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:see more of that type of thing?
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:Hopefully it'll get
better jump cuts too, but
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:Kendra Corman: yeah, I'm hoping
for more better editing overall.
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:There's just so many systems out
there that are helping people do
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:it a lot faster and more efficient.
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:Editing is what has made video a
little bit prohibitive for smaller
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:sized businesses and marketers with
very limited budgets in the past.
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:Because having been the Jeep advertising
manager, I understand what a multi-million
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:dollar commercial shoot looks like, and
the value that editing added was huge.
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:And don't get me wrong.
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:Those people editing still adds
a ton of value that you would not
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:believe, but for smaller businesses
you can make it feel fairly seamless.
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:When it comes to editing out my,
one of my favorite words is, so
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:I use so all the time and it'll
help me edit some of that out.
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:I don't edit out all of them because
then it feels a little bit less
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:authentic and I say the word a lot.
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:It's one of my favorite filler words and I
try to stay cognizant of it and I think I
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:say it more often than I would otherwise.
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:'cause I'm trying to
be so cognizant of it.
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:But, again, just a lot of the little
things with the retouching and the
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:the lighting and just everything
it can do to help smooth out any of
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:those issues that you're having along
the way is just, it's unbelievable.
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:Brett Deister: Yeah, and you also have
editing tool cap cut, which is created by
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:the owner of TikTok, which I've heard is
pretty good for beginner people as well.
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:Kendra Corman: Yeah, so I
have cap cut on my phone.
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:I heard, I think they just came
out with a desktop version now.
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:Brett Deister: Recently.
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:Yeah, there's a desktop version.
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:Kendra Corman: Yes,
there's a desktop version.
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:I haven't played around with that as
much as I have to script, but I plan to
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:keep using it more especially as again,
short form video is still really popular.
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:Brett Deister: And then moving on to
the old school one, email marketing.
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:How important is email marketing
still in the age of social
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:media, in websites, in ai?
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:Kendra Corman: So when it comes to
social media is a pay to play game.
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:For most businesses it doesn't matter how
much you do or what you do, Facebook and
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:LinkedIn, everybody still wants you to
pay to get the exposure on their platform.
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:So you wanna be thinking about that.
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:You don't own social media.
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:A friend of mine is a huge LinkedIn
expert, huge LinkedIn expert.
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:She ended up in LinkedIn jail.
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:If that was her only platform,
she wouldn't have been able to
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:communicate with us for two weeks.
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:Luckily she uses social media in a
smart way and gets people to sign
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:up for some of her freebies or white
papers or downloadables of some sort.
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:They pay with their email address,
and then she was able to tell us
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:that she was in LinkedIn jail.
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:She wasn't at the mercy of LinkedIn
to tell us what was going on.
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:And to be able to continue to
talk with us, her audience, right?
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:And you own email marketing.
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:Social media is an amazing tool.
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:It gets unbelievable reach.
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:I endorse it 100%, but I use it
as a tool to fuel my email list.
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:That is really how you need to be
looking at it, is how can I be able
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:to connect with these people offline?
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:And then when it comes to
websites, those are great.
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:Yeah, you need one, right?
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:You need it to be real.
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:Interesting thing though, nobody's gonna
show up there unless you point them there.
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:So social media will do a little bit
of that, but you really want it to
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:your traffic to blossom in bloom.
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:Send people there from
your email newsletter.
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:Your odds are you're gonna get more
effective and efficient results.
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:From email marketing.
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:Last ad I heard, I think it's still
at $42 return for every dollar
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:you spend on email marketing.
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:There's no other channel
that gives you that return.
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:So again, it's a huge thing
you should be focused on.
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:Brett Deister: No, basically all
of meta is always paid a play
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:except for threads right now.
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:Because it's new.
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:Kendra Corman: Yes.
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:It's never paid a play on something new.
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:Then you get addicted to it
and then you have to pay.
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:Brett Deister: Yeah, true.
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:And for email marketing, should I know
LinkedIn does have a feature for it,
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:should they maybe use it for almost like
a snippet of the actual email newsletter
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:to get them to go to the email newsletter?
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:Kendra Corman: So that's
an interesting thought.
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:I do like that.
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:I actually got someone's email newsletter,
their LinkedIn email newsletter today, and
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:I was looking at it going, I'm like, oh.
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:That's a little bit what I
was thinking about changing my
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:newsletter into in the new year.
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:And I, I was thinking about it, so
there is some reach, but if you're in
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:LinkedIn jail, that's not going anywhere.
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:So you could use those email newsletters
as a way to reach some of your followers.
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:But again, you don't own
it, you own email marketing.
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:So using posts, using videos, you
could use those newsletters as, again,
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:as long as they're driving them.
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:Offline to download something to give you
their email address, to welcome you into
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:their inbox in one way, shape, or form.
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:That's truly the key because you wanna
control when you're talking to them,
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:you don't want them controlling it.
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:And email marketing is so powerful
because even if they don't open it,
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:they see your name in their inbox.
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:That's huge.
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:I've had people reply to my emails
with, Hey, I just was thinking about
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:you because I have this person I
wanna introduce you to, or I think
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:that this person needs help, or, Hey,
we're looking to start this project.
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:Can you help us with it?
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:And it has nothing to do
with the email I sent.
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:It's just such a powerful thing
and most people in the business
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:world are still using email.
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:Brett Deister: It's like the one tech
that will never die for the time being.
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:We never really know what's next.
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:But for the time being, for the long time
being, it's the one thing that never dies.
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:Kendra Corman: I think that people
have been talking about email
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:dying for at least 10 years.
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:It's no, it hasn't yet.
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:It's still going strong.
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:Might it be replaced by
something in the long term?
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:Yeah.
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:But I think we have to start getting
Gen X retiring in a lot larger
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:numbers than we do right now.
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:Gen X is a big, huge user of email
and they've really indoctrinated
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:the organizations to making
sure that they're using it.
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:Brett Deister: That's fair.
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:But yeah, 'cause I would say
Gen X and older millennials, not
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:the younger ones, are probably
the ones that use it the most.
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:And then the younger ones are gonna
be the ones doing the short form.
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:Text or like text message
based type of communication.
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:Kendra Corman: Yes.
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:Whatever that turns out to be.
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:Brett Deister: It could be a weird hybrid
of email and videos at the same time.
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:Kendra Corman: It's gonna
be interesting to see
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:Brett Deister: and how do
you get people to sign up?
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:Is it those freebies?
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:I keep on hearing like the best way
of doing it is freebies, like free
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:like checklist guide for how to start
a podcast or free checklist guide
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:and how to be a guest on a podcast.
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:Like something like similar to that.
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:Kendra Corman: Yeah.
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:So I find that you want people.
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:It depends on the type of business
that you're marketing, right?
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:Because if you've got an online store
and you're willing to pay 10% off or give
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:them free shipping or some sort of added
value, that way, you can do it that way.
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:I strongly recommend that if you're
giving a discount of a decent
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:amount, you wanna get their email
address and their cell phone.
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:You might not be doing SMS
messaging yet, but that's a little
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:bit where things are headed.
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:But email and text are huge in
terms of what you can do with it
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:and how easily you can do with it.
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:If you, again, if you've got
an online store, if you're
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:e-commerce, those are great tools.
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:Give a discount, give something free,
give a free gift, free shipping,
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:whatever that happens to be.
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:And then with more of
the business to business.
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:Professional side of things.
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:Yeah.
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:A download, a guide, how to, a little
mini course, a quiz, any of those
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:things that are gonna add value.
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:You wanna meet your audience where they're
at, and then you wanna think about.
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:So I teach part-time.
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:I'm adjunct faculty at a local
university here in Michigan, and I'm
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:teaching with my students and she's
and we're gonna do email marketing.
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:And I said, great.
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:'cause I love it.
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:How are they?
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:How are you gonna get them to
give you their email address?
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:And she's just are and I'm
like, yeah, no they're not.
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:And the reason that they're not
is 'cause it's valuable, right?
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:You don't mind junk mail showing up
in the mailbox at the end of the,
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:at the end of the driveway or in the
lobby of your apartment building.
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:You can deal with that.
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:'cause you can just throw it out.
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:But when it comes to
email, that's personal.
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:You get more upset and more
annoyed when people that don't have
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:permission to communicate with you
start communicating with you, right?
361
:So because it is more personal, it
needs to be more personalized and
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:it needs to be permission based.
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:And so I.
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:I don't want more email.
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:I don't know anybody that
wants any more email, right?
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:So when you're signing up for
an email, you're not actually
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:signing up to join the newsletter.
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:You're signing up for whatever value
that you are, you're being promised.
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:That's the key.
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:So whatever kind of
value you need it to be.
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:That's the answer.
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:I was talking with a marketing coach
earlier this year and she's basically just
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:on LinkedIn and she does a ton of things
on LinkedIn, but she always publishes a
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:post about what she's gonna be covering
in her email newsletter that week,
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:giving people the opportunity to sign up.
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:And almost every single one of her
email newsletters has some sort of
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:guide checklist, something in it.
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:That is exclusive only
to email subscribers.
379
:So again, just a ton of different ways
you can do it, but just keep in mind
380
:that you are buying their email address
with this item of value and they're
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:paying for it with their email address.
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:Brett Deister: Goes to my next question.
383
:Should you buy email lists?
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:Kendra Corman: No, never ever.
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:It's again, email inboxes
are hugely personal.
386
:Hugely personal.
387
:People get annoyed if you are buy if
someone sold you their email, right?
388
:So you definitely don't
wanna be doing that.
389
:It also hurts you.
390
:It hurts the deliverability
of every other email you send.
391
:So when it comes to, one of
the biggest trends right now in
392
:email marketing is list hygiene.
393
:It's not about the biggest list,
it's about the most engaged list.
394
:You want people opening or
filing or clicking, doing
395
:an action that tells Yahoo.
396
:A OL Outlook, bing, whomever, they're
opening their emails through Gmail,
397
:you're, you want them getting signals
that your email is valuable to the
398
:people that you're sending it to.
399
:That is huge for you and for them.
400
:And so when you're sending those emails.
401
:The more engaged people are, the better.
402
:If you are sending emails and a
lot of people are getting marketing
403
:it as spam, disconnecting, things
like that's really where email
404
:marketing starts to take a hit.
405
:And so less and less of your emails
will actually go into the inbox
406
:and more of them will end up in
spam filters and things like that.
407
:Brett Deister: Yeah, I
def I definitely will.
408
:For those starting out, like your student,
like what email platform should they use?
409
:Because there's a ton of, there's
AWeber, MailChimp, constant Contact.
410
:I found one called Beehive
all of a sudden which one?
411
:Which one's the right one to use?
412
:Kendra Corman: There's flow
desk, there's, yeah, we could,
413
:Emma, we can go on and on, right?
414
:Exact target if it's a big company.
415
:So if you're just starting out and
your business is, maybe business to
416
:business, especially like coaches,
consultants even insurance could do this.
417
:I recommend ConvertKit because they
are free up to a thousand subscribers.
418
:No automations or anything like that.
419
:But when you're getting started out
and you may not quite know exactly
420
:where you wanna go I find that
ConvertKit is a fantastic option.
421
:90% of my clients are on constant contact.
422
:Constant Contact has one of the highest
deliverability rates in the industry.
423
:And a couple years ago they
were bought by private equity.
424
:They have invested.
425
:In that system, it is unbelievable
the workflows you can set up and
426
:the different things that you can
do to make email marketing easier,
427
:more targeted, more relevant.
428
:It's unbelievable what
they've done to that system.
429
:So once you get to a place where you want
to elevate, or if you have quite a few
430
:names already and you really wanna get
into automation, again, ConvertKit is a
431
:great tool, but constant contact's really
scalable in terms of what it can offer.
432
:And it's got add-ons with SMS
messaging as you start to add that.
433
:It can really allow you to
build a platform for yourself.
434
:Brett Deister: Got you.
435
:And then, going back to like you talked
a little bit about just how to measure
436
:how well your email list is going.
437
:And iOS has basically had the new
option where it just opens it all,
438
:so you never really know who's
really opening it and who's not.
439
:So what is the right, analytics to
look at is the click through rates.
440
:What is the now?
441
:Kendra Corman: Yes.
442
:So anything that's based off
of opens is a bunch of junk.
443
:When I talk about list hygiene I talk
about people opening it to their email.
444
:So Gmail knows if you
really opened it or not.
445
:Even if my Apple device pre-op it for me.
446
:I just don't know that
you opened it type thing.
447
:So there opens are still important, but
not as a metric because you're not getting
448
:accurate metrics when it comes to that.
449
:So anything that's driven off
of opens, so click through
450
:rate is a percentage of opens.
451
:So that's also not very good.
452
:Your click through rate should
be a lot lower than it used to
453
:be, and your open rate should be
a lot higher than it used to be.
454
:And again, that's because of iOS 15.
455
:I recommend looking at total numbers.
456
:You wanna look at the total number of
clicks, the number of unique clicks.
457
:You want to measure that type of
engagement over anything else.
458
:And then when you're setting up like
clicks again is usually what I tell people
459
:is probably the most important metric.
460
:But I also look at replies.
461
:A lot of people will reply to an
email, and it's really interesting
462
:to see when they relate to the
content that you're sending them.
463
:It takes a little bit for people to
start replying, but after a couple of
464
:months, when you get one or two replies
and then five or six whenever you're
465
:sending an email newsletter, that's
a metric that's not really measured
466
:inside the email marketing system.
467
:But if you're tracking your own,
you can go ahead and fill out.
468
:Those different metrics and keep track of
them per email to see where you're going.
469
:I also recommend tracking list size.
470
:You want your overall list to be
growing unless you're changing topics.
471
:If you are doing a drastic change
in your business or in your
472
:strategy, then you want your list to
shrink a little bit to get started
473
:because those people aren't any.
474
:Aren't relevant anymore to your
audience and what you have to share.
475
:So again, when you're
doing it, you wanna look.
476
:It's not necessarily unsubscribes
are bad, but you do wanna see
477
:your list growing over time.
478
:So if you've got a hundred
unsubscribers, hopefully you've
479
:got 150 new subscribers, right?
480
:So really taking a look at how
they're engaging with the email and
481
:if they're staying on your list,
those are huge ways to measure
482
:your email marketing performance.
483
:Brett Deister: Does a, does AB testing
play a role in, basically we talk
484
:about the flow of it, and this will
be the first part, but the ab testing
485
:of it is that part of the way of
figuring out what's gonna resonate
486
:with people or not, like changing the
different titles or anything like that?
487
:Kendra Corman: Yeah, so AB testing
can add a lot of value to what is
488
:gonna get people to open the email.
489
:You have less than three seconds.
490
:Before they decide if they're going
to open your email or trash it.
491
:And so they look at your from name, the,
from email address and the subject line.
492
:So if your list is large enough,
if you have 200, 400, 500 people
493
:AB testing just keep writing
to your people, you'll be fine.
494
:But if you've got 2, 3, 5, 10, 20,
a hundred thousand people on your
495
:email list, AB testing can really
make a difference, even if it's.
496
:1% increase on a hundred thousand.
497
:That's huge, right?
498
:So you want to do some
AB testing when you can.
499
:Again, it's not free on any of
those systems, but Constant Contact
500
:has a really powerful AB testing.
501
:It'll do a nice little sample and
then it'll automatically deliver the
502
:winner and you can set that timeframe.
503
:It also depends on if you have time.
504
:So I work with a lot of nonprofits
and so giving Tuesday was a
505
:big day that we had for them.
506
:And don't get me wrong,
love giving Tuesday.
507
:But it has to go on Giving Tuesday.
508
:So there's no AB testing
on giving Tuesday, right?
509
:Because you have to get it out.
510
:So you also have to think about the
timeliness of some of your emails and how
511
:many hours can you give it, or how many
days can you give it with an AB test.
512
:Brett Deister: Could AI actually help
with that as well for creating those
513
:titles or helping you create those titles?
514
:Kendra Corman: Constant
contact has AI built in.
515
:It'll actually give you suggestions.
516
:One of my favorite suggestions that it
gave me was I was writing a newsletter
517
:for one of the nonprofits that I work
with, and one of my content writer
518
:sent me a screenshot of the different
AI suggestions that it gave us for
519
:the newsletter, for the subject line.
520
:And one was like, happy March poisoners.
521
:Because it's like poison safety month.
522
:So sometimes it's wrong but it can give
you some interesting ideas and it's
523
:always good to bounce it off of that.
524
:I have chat, GPT come up with the
titles of some of my podcasts.
525
:When I upload it into Buzz Sprout,
which is the publishing platform
526
:that I use, it also has ai.
527
:And it gives me different titles and
I pick the one that I like the best.
528
:So again, it's just about
options and brainstorming.
529
:And sometimes AI can give you an
idea that you didn't think about and
530
:maybe you change it a little bit.
531
:I.
532
:But it's still there, which is huge.
533
:I love it.
534
:Brett Deister: And then, speaking
on like the flow of the email, how
535
:should the flow of the email go?
536
:'cause I feel like if the flow is
off, people don't wanna read it.
537
:'cause it's like, why am I getting this?
538
:Why is it changing to this?
539
:Like transitions are
like key for everything.
540
:Kendra Corman: Yeah.
541
:I always encourage people, less
is more when it comes to email.
542
:I'm not necessarily saying length
because it depends on your audience.
543
:So your audience is gonna determine
how long your email is, right?
544
:Do they like to read a story or do they
really just want five bullet points?
545
:That's gonna determine a lot of it.
546
:I always encourage people
to write to one person.
547
:So think about the person
that you're writing to.
548
:Think about that person
that you wanna connect with.
549
:Think about that client you
want more business from.
550
:That's who you're writing your email to.
551
:And then it resonates
with people a lot better.
552
:When I work with my nonprofits,
again, they've got a lot of things
553
:going on, so those newsletters
are a little bit more, I would say
554
:jumpy, for lack of a better term.
555
:We have dividers in between them so
that you can see that there's three
556
:individual stories with a short intro
paragraph that's maybe one or two
557
:sentences, and then a short closing
paragraph again, one or two sentences.
558
:When it comes to email marketing,
again, it's the paradox of choice.
559
:When people are given too many choices,
they're not gonna pick anything.
560
:So if you can write about just one thing.
561
:You'll get more engagement
than if you have four.
562
:So engagement and clicks
go down for everything.
563
:Every option that you add after
one, and then it goes off a cliff
564
:when you add more than three.
565
:So limit it to three calls to
action max in any of your emails.
566
:And again, I think that
helps people stay focused.
567
:Brett Deister: You almost need like a
landing page of a catchall for just one.
568
:Call to action.
569
:So it helps them figure out what to do.
570
:Kendra Corman: Exactly.
571
:Yeah.
572
:Again, people are lazy.
573
:They don't read.
574
:I had one of my organizations
that I work with, we sent out an
575
:end of year letter and everyone's
we got the end of your letter.
576
:And I'm like, I didn't
think it went out yet.
577
:Are you sure?
578
:Yeah, we got it.
579
:I'm like, oh, fantastic.
580
:And then we find out, no,
it hasn't gone out yet.
581
:That was a different letter.
582
:That was sent a couple weeks before.
583
:Nobody read it.
584
:Even the people that worked there didn't
read it like, okay, so people don't read.
585
:And so make it as easy as possible.
586
:Walk them through it, dumb it down,
for lack of a better term, to just
587
:get them through that whole process.
588
:Brett Deister: Plus they have
AI that can now read books.
589
:So
590
:Kendra Corman: yeah, it just
summarizes it all for 'em.
591
:Now.
592
:Brett Deister: Very true.
593
:And where is this all
going for email marketing?
594
:Because we're probably gonna see
10 more blog posts, which also
595
:people think blogs are dying too,
about how email marketing is dying.
596
:So is it going to be
dying any anytime soon?
597
:Is there a future to, this is ai, the
future of email marketing for now?
598
:Kendra Corman: So I don't think
it's going anywhere anytime soon.
599
:I still think, again, a lot of
the people that have the spending
600
:power and the money they are.
601
:They're reading email.
602
:I see it morphing for certain businesses
to text, but texts like your message
603
:inbox on your phone is even more personal
than your your email inbox, right?
604
:And so we're getting
more restrictive, more.
605
:Needing to be more personal and
personalized at every stage.
606
:And we're getting to the point where AI is
gonna help us personalize each individual
607
:communication so that we're delivering
to people what they want, when they want
608
:it, so that they can engage with us and
our brands on just an unbelievable level.
609
:Brett Deister: Got you.
610
:And then where do you think
content marketing is going as well?
611
:Because it seems to be email
marketing, content marketing are work
612
:together, but they're still different.
613
:Kendra Corman: Yeah, they go to
gather really well because you need
614
:content for email marketing, right?
615
:You need people to go, you need
to have something to start with.
616
:And I think when it comes to content
marketing, the people that are
617
:generating unique content, that's
value added, that has their expertise.
618
:And their voice are going to stand out
in a even more crowded marketplace.
619
:As we continue to see AI start to
generate more and more content.
620
:They used to say, content is
king, and then they started
621
:saying, good content is king.
622
:I think it's going to be good.
623
:Unique content is king.
624
:So again, you can still
leverage AI for that.
625
:Again, I'm a huge fan of ai, but.
626
:While you're leveraging it, you need
to make sure that you're adding in that
627
:piece of you or that piece of your brand
to make it unique and distinctive and
628
:value added so that it's not something
else that they can get anywhere else.
629
:Brett Deister: All right.
630
:Where can people find you online?
631
:I.
632
:Kendra Corman: So people can find
me online@kendrickcorman.com.
633
:You can check out my podcast, which
is Imperfect Marketing, wherever
634
:you listen to podcasts or on YouTube
at Imperfect Marketing Podcast.
635
:Brett Deister: Alright, any
final thoughts for listeners?
636
:I.
637
:Kendra Corman: So good luck as
you guys battle AI and the crowded
638
:marketplace as we are all as marketers
trying to differentiate ourselves.
639
:Those of us who are good at
differentiating are gonna make a
640
:difference and I wish you luck.
641
:Brett Deister: Alright, thank you
Kendra for joining Digital Coffee
642
:Marketing brings sharing knowledge on
content marketing and email marketing.
643
:Kendra Corman: Thanks again
644
:Brett Deister: and
thank you for listening.
645
:As always, please subscribe to
this podcast and all your favorite
646
:podcasting apps and the five
star Review always does help.
647
:And join us next time as we
talk to your great father in
648
:the PR and marketing industry.
649
:Alright guys, stay safe and understand
your email marketing and your content
650
:marketing and see you next time later.